Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
| From | Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) |
| Message-ID | <20220512184716.00007086@reddwarf.jmc> (permalink) |
| References | <2pSdnR25lqHLZub_nZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com> <20220511201154.00002147@reddwarf.jmc> <lYydndd8nf4JzuH_nZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> <20220512184323.000078f7@reddwarf.jmc> <YrydnRgeEcs22uD_nZ2dnUU7_81g4p2d@giganews.com> |
| Organization | Jupiter Mining Corp |
| Date | 2022-05-12 18:47 +0100 |
On Thu, 12 May 2022 12:45:15 -0500
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> On 5/12/2022 12:43 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> > On Wed, 11 May 2022 19:23:45 -0500
> > olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 5/11/2022 2:11 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 13:07:16 -0500
> >>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem
> >>>> proofs ]
> >>>>
> >>>> The x86utm operating system was created so that every detail of
> >>>> the conventional halting problem counter example could be fully
> >>>> specified in C/x86.
> >>>>
> >>>> In computability theory, the halting problem is the
> >>>> problem of determining, from a description of an
> >>>> arbitrary computer program and an input, whether the
> >>>> program will finish running, or continue to run forever...
> >>>>
> >>>> For any program f that might determine if programs halt,
> >>>> a "pathological" program g, called with some input, can
> >>>> pass its own source and its input to f and then
> >>>> specifically do the opposite of what f predicts g will do. No f
> >>>> can exist that handles this case.
> >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
> >>>>
> >>>> This exact same relationship of f(g,g) was created as H(P,P),
> >>>> shown below.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is the overview of the method for proving that this analysis
> >>>> is correct:
> >>>> (a) Verify that the execution trace of P by H is correct by
> >>>> comparing this execution trace to the ax86 source-code of P.
> >>>>
> >>>> (b) Verify that this execution trace shows that P is stuck in
> >>>> infinitely nested simulation (a non-halting behavior).
> >>>>
> >>>> This proof can only be understood only by those having sufficient
> >>>> technical competence in:
> >>>> (a) software engineering (recognizing infinite recursion in C and
> >>>> x86 code) (b) the x86 programming language
> >>>> (c) the C programming language and
> >>>> (d) the details of how C is translated into x86 by the Microsoft
> >>>> C compilers.
> >>>>
> >>>> #include <stdint.h>
> >>>> #define u32 uint32_t
> >>>>
> >>>> void P(u32 x)
> >>>> {
> >>>> if (H(x, x))
> >>>> HERE: goto HERE;
> >>>> return;
> >>>> }
> >>>>
> >>>> int main()
> >>>> {
> >>>> Output("Input_Halts = ", H((u32)P, (u32)P));
> >>>> }
> >>>>
> >>>> _P()
> >>>> [00001352](01) 55 push ebp
> >>>> [00001353](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
> >>>> [00001355](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
> >>>> [00001358](01) 50 push eax
> >>>> [00001359](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> >>>> [0000135c](01) 51 push ecx
> >>>> [0000135d](05) e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
> >>>> [00001362](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
> >>>> [00001365](02) 85c0 test eax,eax
> >>>> [00001367](02) 7402 jz 0000136b
> >>>> [00001369](02) ebfe jmp 00001369
> >>>> [0000136b](01) 5d pop ebp
> >>>> [0000136c](01) c3 ret
> >>>> Size in bytes:(0027) [0000136c]
> >>>>
> >>>> _main()
> >>>> [00001372](01) 55 push ebp
> >>>> [00001373](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
> >>>> [00001375](05) 6852130000 push 00001352 // push P
> >>>> [0000137a](05) 6852130000 push 00001352 // push P
> >>>> [0000137f](05) e81efeffff call 000011a2 // call H
> >>>> [00001384](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
> >>>> [00001387](01) 50 push eax
> >>>> [00001388](05) 6823040000 push 00000423 // "Input_Halts = "
> >>>> [0000138d](05) e8e0f0ffff call 00000472 // call Output
> >>>> [00001392](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
> >>>> [00001395](02) 33c0 xor eax,eax
> >>>> [00001397](01) 5d pop ebp
> >>>> [00001398](01) c3 ret
> >>>> Size in bytes:(0039) [00001398]
> >>>>
> >>>> machine stack stack machine assembly
> >>>> address address data code language
> >>>> ======== ======== ======== ========= =============
> >>>> ...[00001372][0010229e][00000000] 55 push ebp
> >>>> ...[00001373][0010229e][00000000] 8bec mov ebp,esp
> >>>> ...[00001375][0010229a][00001352] 6852130000 push 00001352 //
> >>>> push P ...[0000137a][00102296][00001352] 6852130000 push
> >>>> 00001352 // push P ...[0000137f][00102292][00001384] e81efeffff
> >>>> call 000011a2 // call H
> >>>>
> >>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation Execution Trace Stored
> >>>> at:212352 ...[00001352][0021233e][00212342] 55 push ebp
> >>>> // enter P ...[00001353][0021233e][00212342] 8bec mov
> >>>> ebp,esp ...[00001355][0021233e][00212342] 8b4508 mov
> >>>> eax,[ebp+08] ...[00001358][0021233a][00001352] 50 push
> >>>> eax // push P ...[00001359][0021233a][00001352] 8b4d08 mov
> >>>> ecx,[ebp+08] ...[0000135c][00212336][00001352] 51 push
> >>>> ecx // push P ...[0000135d][00212332][00001362] e840feffff call
> >>>> 000011a2 // call H ...[00001352][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 55
> >>>> push ebp // enter P ...[00001353][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8bec
> >>>> mov ebp,esp ...[00001355][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8b4508 mov
> >>>> eax,[ebp+08] ...[00001358][0025cd62][00001352] 50 push
> >>>> eax // push P ...[00001359][0025cd62][00001352] 8b4d08 mov
> >>>> ecx,[ebp+08] ...[0000135c][0025cd5e][00001352] 51 push
> >>>> ecx // push P ...[0000135d][0025cd5a][00001362] e840feffff call
> >>>> 000011a2 // call H Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion
> >>>> Detected Simulation Stopped
> >>>>
> >>>> H sees that P is calling the same function from the same machine
> >>>> address with identical parameters, twice in sequence. This is the
> >>>> infinite recursion (infinitely nested simulation) non-halting
> >>>> behavior pattern.
> >>>>
> >>>> ...[00001384][0010229e][00000000] 83c408 add esp,+08
> >>>> ...[00001387][0010229a][00000000] 50 push eax
> >>>> ...[00001388][00102296][00000423] 6823040000 push 00000423 //
> >>>> "Input_Halts ="
> >>>> ---[0000138d][00102296][00000423] e8e0f0ffff call 00000472 //
> >>>> call Output Input_Halts = 0
> >>>> ...[00001392][0010229e][00000000] 83c408 add esp,+08
> >>>> ...[00001395][0010229e][00000000] 33c0 xor eax,eax
> >>>> ...[00001397][001022a2][00100000] 5d pop ebp
> >>>> ...[00001398][001022a6][00000004] c3 ret
> >>>> Number of Instructions Executed(15892) lines = 237 pages
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Halting problem undecidability and infinitely nested simulation
> >>>> (V5)
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359984584_Halting_problem_undecidability_and_infinitely_nested_simulation_V5
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Your simulation approach is erroneous as there is no infinite
> >>> recursion; the key to understanding this is by realizing the
> >>> implication of the words "pass its own source" in the following:
> >>
> >>
> >> YOU IGNORED THIS PART
> >>
> >> This proof can only be understood only by those having sufficient
> >> technical competence in:
> >> (a) software engineering - recognizing infinite recursion in C/x86
> >> (b) the x86 programming language
> >> (c) the C programming language and
> >> (d) the details of how C is translated into x86 by the Microsoft C
> >> compilers.
> >
> > (a) I have been a software developer/engineer since 1993 and am
> > able to recognize infinite recursion and additionally, and more
> > importantly, a lack of infinite recursion.
>
> This has been disproven in that you did not see this:
>
> >>>> H sees that P is calling the same function from the same machine
> >>>> address with identical parameters, twice in sequence. This is
> >>>> the infinite recursion (infinitely nested simulation)
> >>>> non-halting behavior pattern.
I am not talking about your braindead simulation, I am talking about
the halting problem proofs you are trying to refute: THEY DO NOT HAVE
AN INFINITE RECURSION.
/Flibble
Back to comp.theory | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 13:07 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-11 20:11 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 19:23 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 21:02 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 18:31 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 12:43 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 18:43 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 12:45 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 18:47 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 12:51 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 19:00 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 13:06 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 19:13 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 21:12 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 15:18 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 23:58 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 18:28 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 01:40 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 20:32 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 21:48 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 13:38 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 20:56 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 19:09 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 18:50 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 18:46 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 18:45 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 19:41 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 01:17 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 19:29 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 20:52 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 02:10 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 21:29 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 23:02 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 23:54 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 18:21 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-13 00:24 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 18:42 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 01:35 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 20:25 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 21:41 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 12:05 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 12:01 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 20:06 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 14:24 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 16:11 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 15:22 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 13:26 -0700
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 15:38 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-13 21:44 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 13:27 -0700
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 17:22 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 16:48 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 18:04 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 17:06 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 19:07 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 18:09 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 19:20 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 18:26 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 20:04 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 19:20 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 20:41 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-05-13 19:03 -0600
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 21:21 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 22:37 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 23:46 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 17:57 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 19:09 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 18:18 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 20:09 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-14 01:03 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 19:11 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-14 01:18 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 19:22 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-14 01:28 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-14 11:45 +0300
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-14 04:28 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-14 15:55 +0300
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-14 08:53 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-15 12:05 +0300
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-13 16:11 +0300
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 11:15 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-14 11:26 +0300
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 21:03 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-13 16:02 +0300
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 12:21 -0700
csiph-web