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Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters

From Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org>
Newsgroups linux.debian.devel
Subject Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters
Date 2025-03-03 22:50 +0100
Message-ID <KmlPH-3oJK-17@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References <KmlPH-3oJK-19@gated-at.bofh.it> <Kkukp-2an8-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <KmkJX-3o5n-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <Kmlwl-3oCM-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On Monday, March 3, 2025 2:28:38 PM MST Stephan Verbücheln wrote:
> Am Montag, dem 03.03.2025 um 13:38 -0700 schrieb Soren Stoutner:
> > Also, as I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, this is not a
> > discussion about the merits of HTML vs plain text.  As long as emails
> > to the mailing list contain a plain text part, I know of no problem
> > caused by them also containing an HTML part, which the receiving MUA
> > is welcome to ignore.
> 
> The rules say “Please don't send your messages in HTML,” they do not
> say “Please also add plain text to your messages.”
> 
> It bloats up the message.
> 
> But the more serious problem: Everyone actually has to verify that both
> message parts have the same content for any important message, which
> are both signed by PGP.

Interesting.  I guess that text could be interpreted as “Do not send an HTML part, even if 
you also send a plain text part.”

If that is the general understanding of the meaning of that section, then I think we ought 
to start a separate discussion about changing the text to be explicit that it is OK to send an 
HTML part as long as there is also a plain text part.  However, I would appreciate it if this 
discussion were not hijacked to discuss HTML vs. plain text.  This discussion is only about 
whether sending MUAs should be required to wrap plain text at a particular column.

> > All of the subsequent emails I have sent as part of this discussion
> > have been wrapped at 80 characters inline with the current mailing
> > list code of conduct.
> 
> They are wrapped in a silly and broken way if you take a look at the
> message source.

I agree.  Having the sending MUA wrap text creates problems, even with efforts like 
format=flowed that try to hint to the receiving MUA how to unwrap the text.  Hence, I 
propose that we change the expectation so that the sending MUA is not expected to wrap 
text.  I believe it is the only solution that makes technical sense because 1) the sending 
MUA does not know the screen width of the receiving device, and 2) different receiving 
devices and users have wildly different width needs, and there is no single column width 
the sending MUA can use that works well on all receiving devices.

-- 
Soren Stoutner
soren@debian.org

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Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-26 19:30 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-02-26 19:40 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marvin Renich <mrvn@renich.org> - 2025-02-26 21:40 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-02-26 22:10 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2025-02-27 12:10 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrea Pappacoda" <tachi@debian.org> - 2025-02-26 20:00 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2025-02-26 20:20 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Bastian Blank <waldi@debian.org> - 2025-02-26 21:10 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Sowden <azazel@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 00:10 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrej Shadura" <andrewsh@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 09:40 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 10:30 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 12:40 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Blair Noctis <ncts@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 12:10 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2025-02-27 12:20 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrej Shadura" <andrew@shadura.me> - 2025-02-27 13:50 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2025-02-27 14:10 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 14:50 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Aurélien COUDERC <libre@coucouf.fr> - 2025-02-27 15:40 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrej Shadura" <andrew@shadura.me> - 2025-02-27 16:10 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters thomas@goirand.fr - 2025-02-28 18:40 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li> - 2025-02-28 18:40 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Aurélien COUDERC <libre@coucouf.fr> - 2025-03-01 11:30 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Blair Noctis <ncts@debian.org> - 2025-03-02 14:10 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-02 14:10 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Stephan Verbücheln <verbuecheln@posteo.de> - 2025-03-02 15:20 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrea Pappacoda" <tachi@debian.org> - 2025-03-02 18:10 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Blair Noctis <ncts@debian.org> - 2025-03-02 18:50 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Tino Didriksen <tino@didriksen.cc> - 2025-02-27 13:00 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2025-02-27 13:30 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 14:50 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 14:40 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Aaron Rainbolt <arraybolt3@gmail.com> - 2025-02-27 15:00 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-02-27 15:20 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 17:00 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 23:20 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Aaron Schrab <aaron@schrab.com> - 2025-02-27 23:20 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Wookey <wookey@wookware.org> - 2025-02-28 02:00 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> - 2025-02-28 08:30 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2025-03-16 18:20 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2025-03-16 19:00 +0100
        BTS not unmangling quoting markers with format=flowed (was: Re:  Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters) Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2025-03-18 01:00 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 17:50 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2025-02-27 18:40 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2025-02-28 03:40 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-02-28 09:30 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-28 17:50 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrea Pappacoda" <tachi@debian.org> - 2025-02-28 18:30 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-02-28 18:40 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-28 19:00 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2025-03-01 09:50 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-02 11:20 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2025-03-02 13:00 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Blair Noctis <ncts@debian.org> - 2025-03-02 18:40 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-02 19:30 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Blair Noctis <ncts@debian.org> - 2025-03-02 14:20 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-02 19:10 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Andrea Pappacoda <andrea@pappacoda.it> - 2025-03-02 18:00 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 18:40 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-03-03 20:50 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 21:40 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Otto Kekäläinen <otto@debian.org> - 2025-03-05 20:10 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Leandro Cunha <leandrocunha016@gmail.com> - 2025-03-05 20:20 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80  characters Thorsten Glaser <tg@debian.org> - 2025-03-08 00:30 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters IOhannes m zmölnig <umlaeute@debian.org> - 2025-03-08 09:00 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-02-27 22:20 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-02-28 09:40 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-28 18:00 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 18:40 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 19:40 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 20:10 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Roger Lynn <Roger@rilynn.me.uk> - 2025-03-03 23:30 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-04 13:10 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Stephan Verbücheln <verbuecheln@posteo.de> - 2025-03-03 21:30 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 21:40 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Henrik Ahlgren <pablo@seestieto.com> - 2025-03-03 22:20 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrea Pappacoda" <tachi@debian.org> - 2025-03-04 09:00 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Henrik Ahlgren <pablo@seestieto.com> - 2025-03-04 09:40 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-04 13:10 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Stephan Verbücheln <verbuecheln@posteo.de> - 2025-03-03 22:30 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 22:50 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 23:30 +0100
            Re: nerd-sniping [was: Change the expectation that emails should  wrap at 80 characters] Jeremy Sowden <azazel@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 23:50 +0100
              Re: nerd-sniping [was: Change the expectation that emails should  wrap at 80 characters] Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2025-03-04 11:50 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 23:50 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Stephan Verbücheln <verbuecheln@posteo.de> - 2025-03-04 08:00 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-04 13:10 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-04 13:10 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-04 21:00 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2025-03-05 01:00 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-03-05 01:50 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-05 02:30 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-05 17:20 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-03-05 18:30 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Stephan Verbücheln <verbuecheln@posteo.de> - 2025-03-15 11:10 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 18:30 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2025-03-06 07:20 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Henrik Ahlgren <pablo@seestieto.com> - 2025-03-06 08:20 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-07 11:10 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-03-07 16:20 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2025-03-06 14:50 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Giuseppe Sacco <eppesuig@debian.org> - 2025-03-06 15:00 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters gregor herrmann <gregoa@debian.org> - 2025-03-07 00:20 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2025-03-07 09:00 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-08 00:50 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2025-03-08 09:00 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2025-03-09 00:30 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-09 02:00 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Andreas Metzler <ametzler@bebt.de> - 2025-03-09 06:50 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2025-03-09 22:20 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2025-03-09 22:40 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> - 2025-03-10 10:40 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2025-03-09 22:50 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li> - 2025-03-09 23:00 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 01:40 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Julien Plissonneau Duquène <sre4ever@free.fr> - 2025-03-10 11:10 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-10 11:30 +0100
            please do not use text/markdown Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 11:20 +0100
              Re: please do not use text/markdown Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2025-03-10 12:30 +0100
                Re: please do not use text/markdown Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 13:20 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-03-10 14:50 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 17:00 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 17:10 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 11:30 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Stephan Verbücheln <verbuecheln@posteo.de> - 2025-03-10 12:40 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Blair Noctis <ncts@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 13:20 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 17:10 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-14 22:50 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 11:00 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 18:30 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2025-03-15 21:00 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 21:50 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Antonio Terceiro <terceiro@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 15:50 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 15:50 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrea Pappacoda" <andrea@pappacoda.it> - 2025-03-15 19:20 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 20:20 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Stephan Verbücheln <verbuecheln@posteo.de> - 2025-03-15 20:00 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Carsten Schoenert <c.schoenert@t-online.de> - 2025-03-16 15:20 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Paul Tagliamonte <paultag@debian.org> - 2025-03-16 18:50 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2025-03-16 20:10 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 20:20 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Julien Plissonneau Duquène <sre4ever@free.fr> - 2025-03-09 12:30 +0100

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