Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters

From	Philip Hands <phil@hands.com>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.devel
Subject	Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters
Date	2025-03-09 22:20 +0100
Message-ID	<KowdX-4ScR-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<Kkukp-2an8-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <KnPC1-4pOJ-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <KobMe-4ERu-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <Kodbk-4FEr-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
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Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> writes:

> On Saturday, March 8, 2025 4:23:56 PM MST Philip Hands wrote:
>> Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> writes:
>> > At this point in the discussion I would like to progress toward a decision.
>> > 
>> > One way to do so would be a GR.  On one hand, using a GR to modify one line
>> > of the code of conduct for the mailing list seems like a rather large hammer
>> > for a rather small problem.  But on the other hand, many people feel
>> > strongly
>> > enough about this that a GR might be the only mechanism where people will
>> > feel like the outcome is fair.
>> > 
>> > My question is, is there any other decision making process that would be
>> > preferable to a GR to decide this issue?
>> 
>> You seem to be under the impression that there's an emerging consensus
>> in favour of your idea.
>
> Yes, I feel like there are a majority of Debian Developers who are in favor of making the 
> change that I propose, partially based on the number of people who have commented 
> only once in the conversation with a short message in favor of the change.

OK, so that provoked me to check if it's my input filter that's
defective, or yours.

Having skimmed through the 106 mails I currently see in this thread,
this is the way I'd summarise people's preferences (if anyone sees that
I've mis-characterised their view, I promise it was not intentional, so
please forgive me and correct my mistake)

* Supporting the proposal

  Soren Stoutner
  Andrej Shadura
  Blair Noctis (as well as supporting format=flowed,
                or perhaps just anti-thunderbird)
  Tino Didriksen (or perhaps format=flowed)
  Otto Kekäläinen (or perhaps supporting Charles Plessy)

* Against the proposal

  Jeremy Stanley
  Marco d'Itri
  Bastian Blank
  Jeremy Sowden
  The Wanderer
  Giuseppe Sacco
  gregor herrmann (while suporting format=flowed)
  Andreas Metzler

* Advocating Format=flowed

  Andrea Pappacoda
  Jonathan Dowland
  Timo Röhling
  Aurélien COUDERC
  Colin Watson
  Aaron Rainbolt
  Jeremy Stanley
  Wookey
  Philipp Kern
  Roger Lynn (somewhat)
  Jonas Smedegaard
  Philip Hands
  Julien Plissonneau Duquène

* Unclear

  Marvin Renich
  Vincent Lefevre (seems against though)
  Thomas Goirand
  Jonathan McDowell
  Marc Haber (but perhaps against everything ;-) )
  Stephan Verbücheln
  Holger Levsen (with strong hints of against)
  Aaron Schrab
  Bjørn Mork
  Charles Plessy (suggesting complaints should be off-list)
  Mario Limonciello (hints of format=flowed support)
  Leandro Cunha
  Thorsten Glaser (seems against though)
  IOhannes m zmölnig (perhaps a supporter)
  Stephan Verbücheln (against? at least against mixed HTML)
  Henrik Ahlgren
  Russ Allbery
  James Lu
  Andrey Rakhmatullin

I would sumarise that as follows:

  In favour:          5  (including yourself)
                     +2  (possibly)

  Against:            8
                     +5  (possibly)

  for Format=Flowed: 13

Of the 13 F=F folk, several also lean against the proposal to some extent.

I may be over-counting your supporters (given the notes by them).

Perhaps I'm neglecting to count some of the pro-F=F folk as also being
in support of you, because I mis-read their mails or some such.

Regardless, it seems clear that you are suffering from confirmation bias.

It would be nice if you could take that into account to some extent.

Cheers, Phil.
-- 
Philip Hands -- https://hands.com/~phil

Thread

Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-26 19:30 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-02-26 19:40 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marvin Renich <mrvn@renich.org> - 2025-02-26 21:40 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-02-26 22:10 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2025-02-27 12:10 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrea Pappacoda" <tachi@debian.org> - 2025-02-26 20:00 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2025-02-26 20:20 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Bastian Blank <waldi@debian.org> - 2025-02-26 21:10 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Sowden <azazel@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 00:10 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrej Shadura" <andrewsh@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 09:40 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 10:30 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 12:40 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Blair Noctis <ncts@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 12:10 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2025-02-27 12:20 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrej Shadura" <andrew@shadura.me> - 2025-02-27 13:50 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2025-02-27 14:10 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 14:50 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Aurélien COUDERC <libre@coucouf.fr> - 2025-02-27 15:40 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrej Shadura" <andrew@shadura.me> - 2025-02-27 16:10 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters thomas@goirand.fr - 2025-02-28 18:40 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li> - 2025-02-28 18:40 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Aurélien COUDERC <libre@coucouf.fr> - 2025-03-01 11:30 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Blair Noctis <ncts@debian.org> - 2025-03-02 14:10 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-02 14:10 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Stephan Verbücheln <verbuecheln@posteo.de> - 2025-03-02 15:20 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrea Pappacoda" <tachi@debian.org> - 2025-03-02 18:10 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Blair Noctis <ncts@debian.org> - 2025-03-02 18:50 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Tino Didriksen <tino@didriksen.cc> - 2025-02-27 13:00 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2025-02-27 13:30 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 14:50 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 14:40 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Aaron Rainbolt <arraybolt3@gmail.com> - 2025-02-27 15:00 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-02-27 15:20 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 17:00 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 23:20 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Aaron Schrab <aaron@schrab.com> - 2025-02-27 23:20 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Wookey <wookey@wookware.org> - 2025-02-28 02:00 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> - 2025-02-28 08:30 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2025-03-16 18:20 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2025-03-16 19:00 +0100
        BTS not unmangling quoting markers with format=flowed (was: Re:  Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters) Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2025-03-18 01:00 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-27 17:50 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2025-02-27 18:40 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2025-02-28 03:40 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-02-28 09:30 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-28 17:50 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrea Pappacoda" <tachi@debian.org> - 2025-02-28 18:30 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-02-28 18:40 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-28 19:00 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2025-03-01 09:50 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-02 11:20 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2025-03-02 13:00 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Blair Noctis <ncts@debian.org> - 2025-03-02 18:40 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-02 19:30 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Blair Noctis <ncts@debian.org> - 2025-03-02 14:20 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-02 19:10 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Andrea Pappacoda <andrea@pappacoda.it> - 2025-03-02 18:00 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 18:40 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-03-03 20:50 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 21:40 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Otto Kekäläinen <otto@debian.org> - 2025-03-05 20:10 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Leandro Cunha <leandrocunha016@gmail.com> - 2025-03-05 20:20 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80  characters Thorsten Glaser <tg@debian.org> - 2025-03-08 00:30 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters IOhannes m zmölnig <umlaeute@debian.org> - 2025-03-08 09:00 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-02-27 22:20 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-02-28 09:40 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-02-28 18:00 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 18:40 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 19:40 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 20:10 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Roger Lynn <Roger@rilynn.me.uk> - 2025-03-03 23:30 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-04 13:10 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Stephan Verbücheln <verbuecheln@posteo.de> - 2025-03-03 21:30 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 21:40 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Henrik Ahlgren <pablo@seestieto.com> - 2025-03-03 22:20 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrea Pappacoda" <tachi@debian.org> - 2025-03-04 09:00 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Henrik Ahlgren <pablo@seestieto.com> - 2025-03-04 09:40 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-04 13:10 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Stephan Verbücheln <verbuecheln@posteo.de> - 2025-03-03 22:30 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 22:50 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 23:30 +0100
            Re: nerd-sniping [was: Change the expectation that emails should  wrap at 80 characters] Jeremy Sowden <azazel@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 23:50 +0100
              Re: nerd-sniping [was: Change the expectation that emails should  wrap at 80 characters] Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2025-03-04 11:50 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-03 23:50 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Stephan Verbücheln <verbuecheln@posteo.de> - 2025-03-04 08:00 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-04 13:10 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-04 13:10 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-04 21:00 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2025-03-05 01:00 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-03-05 01:50 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-05 02:30 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-05 17:20 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-03-05 18:30 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Stephan Verbücheln <verbuecheln@posteo.de> - 2025-03-15 11:10 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 18:30 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2025-03-06 07:20 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Henrik Ahlgren <pablo@seestieto.com> - 2025-03-06 08:20 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-07 11:10 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-03-07 16:20 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2025-03-06 14:50 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Giuseppe Sacco <eppesuig@debian.org> - 2025-03-06 15:00 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters gregor herrmann <gregoa@debian.org> - 2025-03-07 00:20 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2025-03-07 09:00 +0100
  Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-08 00:50 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2025-03-08 09:00 +0100
    Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2025-03-09 00:30 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-09 02:00 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Andreas Metzler <ametzler@bebt.de> - 2025-03-09 06:50 +0100
        Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2025-03-09 22:20 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2025-03-09 22:40 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> - 2025-03-10 10:40 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2025-03-09 22:50 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li> - 2025-03-09 23:00 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 01:40 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Julien Plissonneau Duquène <sre4ever@free.fr> - 2025-03-10 11:10 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-10 11:30 +0100
            please do not use text/markdown Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 11:20 +0100
              Re: please do not use text/markdown Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2025-03-10 12:30 +0100
                Re: please do not use text/markdown Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 13:20 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-03-10 14:50 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 17:00 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 17:10 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 11:30 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Stephan Verbücheln <verbuecheln@posteo.de> - 2025-03-10 12:40 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Blair Noctis <ncts@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 13:20 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 17:10 +0100
          Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-14 22:50 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 11:00 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 18:30 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2025-03-15 21:00 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 21:50 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Antonio Terceiro <terceiro@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 15:50 +0100
              Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 15:50 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters "Andrea Pappacoda" <andrea@pappacoda.it> - 2025-03-15 19:20 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 20:20 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Stephan Verbücheln <verbuecheln@posteo.de> - 2025-03-15 20:00 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Carsten Schoenert <c.schoenert@t-online.de> - 2025-03-16 15:20 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Paul Tagliamonte <paultag@debian.org> - 2025-03-16 18:50 +0100
                Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2025-03-16 20:10 +0100
            Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-15 20:20 +0100
      Re: Change the expectation that emails should wrap at 80 characters Julien Plissonneau Duquène <sre4ever@free.fr> - 2025-03-09 12:30 +0100

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