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Re: One works, the other doesn't?

Subject Re: One works, the other doesn't?
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
References (15 earlier) <qq0np1$cgc$1@dont-email.me> <izTwF.228690$LT2.137023@fx21.am4> <qq1bed$109$1@dont-email.me> <KIXwF.401247$7ei.266197@fx36.am4> <qq1pgf$sb0$1@dont-email.me>
From Bart <bc@freeuk.com>
Message-ID <Hi_wF.8090$9h3.6581@fx10.am4> (permalink)
Organization virginmedia.com
Date 2019-11-07 19:31 +0000

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On 07/11/2019 18:58, David Brown wrote:
> On 07/11/2019 17:34, Bart wrote:


>> In my work which is based around whole-project compilation, it /is/ 
>> useful.
> 
> What is the point of whole-project compilation?

What is the point of whole-module compilation? Compared with doing a 
function at a time. I'm just changing the granularity of an independent 
compilation unit from a single module, to a single program/library (ie. 
one .exe/.dll file).

This eliminates figuring out dependencies between modules (so as to 
decided what to compile first, or next), simplifies interfacing, makes 
more possible more efficient compilation by creating a global symbol 
table once, and each module and its interface is processed exactly once 
per program build (instead of N times for N independently-compiled 
shared modules as happens in C).

If I was into optimisation, then this also provides innumerable extra 
opportunities, as the entire source of the program is visible.

It also eliminates the need for extra information (ie. via makefiles) 
that specify the modules that comprise a project. You just specify the 
lead module, and everything else is derived from that.

In short, there are lots of good reasons.

There are still external interfaces to define and maintain, but those 
are now moved to inter-program interfaces (between .exe and .dlls for 
example), which are more stable, tend not to be circular, and are 
usually binaries not source code. And, often, those libraries are 
someone else's responsibility, and may be provided by the OS.

>> That's pretty much what happens with every scripting language. Why are 
>> /they/ rebuilding their engines every time?
> 
> They are not.  I thought you knew how scripting languages work.

They are usually run-from-source. So you will start with a lead module 
(like my whole-project compilers) and that will import others as needed. 
Some interpreters may implement caching of byte-code files, but that's 
an optional feature.

I don't mean compile the source code of the interpreter as well as the 
source code of the programs into byte-code.

But now that that has been brought up, if I try that on my interpreter, 
it adds 0.2 seconds to the overall time of compiling/running a dynamic 
program from source.

So compiling the interpreter from scratch (56Kloc) adds 0.2 seconds (I 
suspect it will be a little longer with CPython).

> I think you'll find I have often said there was a place for them.  But 
> that place is not for normal software development.

Well, I say it CAN be for normal development. Obviously not yours.


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One works, the other doesn't? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-03 17:39 -0500
  Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-04 00:20 +0000
  Re: One works, the other doesn't? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-11-04 06:53 +0000
  Re: One works, the other doesn't? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-04 09:45 -0500
    Re: One works, the other doesn't? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-05 10:34 -0500
      Re: One works, the other doesn't? mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-11-05 07:45 -0800
        Re: One works, the other doesn't? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-05 10:53 -0500
          Re: One works, the other doesn't? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 08:04 -0800
            Re: One works, the other doesn't? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-05 11:29 -0500
              Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-05 23:24 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-05 23:06 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-06 12:31 +1300
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-05 23:43 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-06 12:54 +1300
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-06 01:35 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-06 15:16 +1300
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-06 11:11 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 01:59 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 11:35 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 08:57 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-07 07:24 +1300
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 22:59 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 14:37 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-07 00:58 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-11-07 02:08 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-07 15:43 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-11-07 16:15 -0600
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-11-10 20:01 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-11 15:26 +1300
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-11 12:37 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-07 07:21 +1300
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 10:39 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-07 07:47 +1300
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-07 08:14 +1300
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 12:30 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-08 21:04 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-11-09 01:37 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-11-09 01:38 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-10 08:32 +1300
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-28 16:09 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-29 11:33 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-30 14:20 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-12-01 12:15 +1300
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 10:07 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-06 10:58 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-07 10:05 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 09:52 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 00:56 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 01:00 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-06 11:32 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 23:11 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-06 23:22 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-07 01:04 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-07 01:13 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-07 10:22 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-07 11:51 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-07 15:58 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-07 16:34 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-07 12:40 -0500
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-07 17:57 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-11-07 21:14 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-08 09:45 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-11-08 09:56 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-08 19:47 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-09 09:14 +1300
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-11-08 19:10 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-09 12:24 +0000
                Like an old married couple... (Was: One works, the other doesn't?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-11-08 20:25 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-07 19:58 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-07 19:31 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-08 08:56 +1300
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-07 20:06 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-08 09:21 +1300
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-07 21:20 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-08 10:28 +1300
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-07 22:35 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-09 09:22 +1300
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? jadill33@gmail.com - 2019-11-07 08:37 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-11-07 08:52 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? jadill33@gmail.com - 2019-11-07 09:52 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-07 20:04 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-08 19:50 -0800
            Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 18:05 +0100
              Re: One works, the other doesn't? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 09:28 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 19:02 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-05 23:21 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 18:36 +0100
      Re: One works, the other doesn't? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-05 12:51 -0500
        Re: One works, the other doesn't? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-05 18:35 -0500
          Re: One works, the other doesn't? Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@delq.com> - 2019-11-05 17:53 -0800
          Re: One works, the other doesn't? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-06 09:33 -0500
      Re: One works, the other doesn't? Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@delq.com> - 2019-11-05 13:36 -0800
      Re: One works, the other doesn't? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2019-11-07 10:17 +0100
        Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-07 12:19 +0000
          Re: One works, the other doesn't? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2019-11-07 18:59 +0100
            Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-08 00:02 +0000
              Re: One works, the other doesn't? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2019-11-20 10:54 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-20 11:14 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2019-11-20 13:22 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-28 15:54 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-11-20 08:42 -0800
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-21 18:56 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-22 01:07 +0000
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-22 15:27 +0100
                Re: One works, the other doesn't? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-28 15:47 -0800
        Re: One works, the other doesn't? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-07 18:41 -0500
    Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 17:39 +0100
      Re: One works, the other doesn't? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-05 11:47 -0500
        Re: One works, the other doesn't? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 17:54 +0100
          Re: One works, the other doesn't? luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 09:00 -0800
        Re: One works, the other doesn't? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-08 21:02 -0800
          Re: One works, the other doesn't? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-09 02:09 -0500

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