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Groups > linux.debian.user > #265022

Re: lists

From Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: lists
Date 2023-12-20 19:30 +0100
Message-ID <HN9uq-eURj-27@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <HN7LY-eTM7-13@gated-at.bofh.it> <HN7VE-eTQ8-21@gated-at.bofh.it> <HN7VE-eTQ8-19@gated-at.bofh.it> <HN85j-eTTt-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <HN8eZ-eUc8-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization linux.* mail to news gateway

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On 20 Dec 2023 12:00 -0500, from pocket@columbus.rr.com (Pocket):
> The SMTP server on bendel.debian.org should have resent?  No?

In one word: No.

Because the mail in question was rejected by the recipient MTA
(pkvw-mx.msg.pkvw.co.charter.net) with a PERMANENT error. This is
clearly shown in your message-ID <43410a14-1689-418a-8152-d734e3d81c94@columbus.rr.com>.

SMTP 5xx response codes are _permanent errors_. They indicate that the
_sender_ needs to fix something about the message for delivery to be
possible; the situation will not resolve itself. This has been
specified since the original SMTP standard in 1982; see RFC 821
appendix E (page 48-49). https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc821#page-48

In the current standard, the same thing is specified (using almost
exactly the same wording, even) in RFC 5321 section 4.2.1.
https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5321#section-4.2.1

If your ISP had done the right thing and rejected with a 4xx response,
as is customary in for example overload conditions, then the sending
MTA would have kept that message in its outbound queue and retried
later, and we wouldn't have this long meta-discussion.

If your ISP's mail servers can't even speak proper SMTP, please don't
expect that everyone else on the Internet will bend over backwards to
cater to a non-standard implementation.

-- 
Michael Kjörling                     🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

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Thread

lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 14:00 +0100
  Re: lists Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-12-20 14:10 +0100
    Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 14:40 +0100
      Re: lists Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-12-20 14:50 +0100
      Re: lists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-12-20 14:50 +0100
      Re: lists Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2023-12-20 16:10 +0100
      Re: lists Christoph Brinkhaus <c.brinkhaus@t-online.de> - 2023-12-20 16:20 +0100
        Re: lists Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2023-12-20 16:20 +0100
          Re: lists Christoph Brinkhaus <c.brinkhaus@t-online.de> - 2023-12-20 16:30 +0100
          Re: lists Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2023-12-20 16:50 +0100
        Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 16:30 +0100
          Re: lists Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-12-20 16:40 +0100
            Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 16:50 +0100
              Re: lists Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-12-20 17:00 +0100
              Re: lists Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-12-20 17:00 +0100
          Re: lists "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-12-20 17:30 +0100
            Re: lists Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2023-12-20 17:40 +0100
        Re: lists Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-12-20 17:00 +0100
          Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 17:10 +0100
            Re: lists Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2023-12-20 17:20 +0100
              Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 17:20 +0100
                Re: lists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-12-20 17:30 +0100
                Re: lists Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2023-12-20 17:40 +0100
                Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 17:40 +0100
                Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 17:50 +0100
                Re: lists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-12-20 17:50 +0100
                Re: lists Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2023-12-20 17:50 +0100
                Re: lists Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-12-20 18:00 +0100
                Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 18:10 +0100
                Re: lists Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2023-12-20 19:30 +0100
                Re: lists Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-12-20 17:50 +0100
                Re: lists Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-12-20 17:40 +0100
                Re: lists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-12-20 17:50 +0100
                Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 18:10 +0100
                Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 17:50 +0100
                Re: lists Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-12-20 19:30 +0100
            Re: lists Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-12-20 17:40 +0100
              Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 17:40 +0100
        Re: lists Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2023-12-20 17:00 +0100
          Re: lists Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2023-12-20 17:20 +0100
            Re: lists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-12-20 17:30 +0100
            Re: lists Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2023-12-20 17:50 +0100
              Re: lists Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2023-12-20 18:00 +0100
                Re: lists Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2023-12-20 18:00 +0100
      Re: lists gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-20 18:00 +0100
        Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 18:10 +0100
          Re: lists Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-20 19:20 +0100
            Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 19:30 +0100
              Re: lists Hanno 'Rince' Wagner <wagner@debian.org> - 2023-12-20 19:50 +0100
                Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 20:10 +0100
                Re: lists Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2023-12-20 20:20 +0100
                Re: lists Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-12-20 21:00 +0100
                Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 21:10 +0100
                Re: lists Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2023-12-20 21:30 +0100
                Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-20 21:50 +0100
                Re: lists gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-21 00:00 +0100
                Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-21 00:20 +0100
                Re: lists John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-12-21 00:50 +0100
                Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-21 01:00 +0100
                Could we please cease this thread now? [WAS Re: lists] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2023-12-21 11:40 +0100
                Re: Could we please cease this thread now? [WAS Re: lists] Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-21 11:50 +0100
                Re: Could we please cease this thread now? [WAS Re: lists] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-12-21 12:40 +0100
                Re: Could we please cease this thread now? [WAS Re: lists] Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-21 13:40 +0100
                Re: Could we please cease this thread now? [WAS Re: lists] Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2023-12-21 14:20 +0100
                Re: Could we please cease this thread now? [WAS Re: lists] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-12-21 14:50 +0100
                Re: Could we please cease this thread now? [WAS Re: lists] Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-21 15:00 +0100
                Re: Could we please cease this thread now? [WAS Re: lists] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-12-21 15:10 +0100
                Re: Could we please cease this thread now? [WAS Re: lists] Hanno 'Rince' Wagner <wagner@debian.org> - 2023-12-21 15:20 +0100
                Re: Could we please cease this thread now? [WAS Re: lists] Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-21 15:30 +0100
          Re: lists gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-20 23:40 +0100
            Re: lists Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-21 00:00 +0100
              Re: lists Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2023-12-21 00:10 +0100
              Re: wireless broadband providers exist (was: lists) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2023-12-21 01:50 +0100
                Re: wireless broadband providers exist The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2023-12-21 01:50 +0100
                Re: wireless broadband providers exist Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-21 02:10 +0100
                Re: wireless broadband providers exist Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-12-21 02:50 +0100
                Re: wireless broadband providers exist Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-21 03:30 +0100
                Re: wireless broadband providers exist John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-12-21 05:30 +0100
                Re: wireless broadband providers exist John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-12-21 05:20 +0100
                Re: wireless broadband providers exist Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-21 02:00 +0100
                Re: wireless broadband providers exist Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2023-12-21 02:30 +0100
                Re: wireless broadband providers exist Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-21 02:40 +0100

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