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Groups > comp.lang.c > #109456
| From | Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] |
| Date | 2017-05-07 20:01 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <D5352D8B.A3FFB%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> (permalink) |
| References | (12 earlier) <50c18920-b380-43fa-bd10-444945d6f02d@googlegroups.com> <D5300EA6.A35A4%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <20170507160840.4ea045a8bdb6462c349a41d5@gmail.com> <oenc9i$36e$1@dont-email.me> <22aa6d67-2295-4edb-8691-300b1c6fbd37@googlegroups.com> |
On 5/7/17, 6:35 PM, in article
22aa6d67-2295-4edb-8691-300b1c6fbd37@googlegroups.com, "joel.rees@gmail.com"
<joel.rees@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 11:54:54 PM UTC+9, BruceS wrote:
>> On 05/07/2017 07:08 AM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>>> Snit:
>>>
>>>> Deuteronomy 22:28-29а:
>>>>
>>>> If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not
>>>> engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.
>>>> Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he
>>>> will never be allowed to divorce her.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah: the bible says a rapist must pay fifty pieces of silver
>>>> and then the ictim is forced to marry the rapist.
>>>
>>> No, the rapist is forced to marry the victim.
>>>
>>>> What a horrid lesson. Makes me want to puke.
>>>>
>>>> And that is just one of the horrid lessons and stories of rape
>>>> in the bible.
>>>
>>> Looks like a genuine anti-rape law to me that will make any man
>>> think twice before attempting a rape, because that may be the last
>>> rape in his life, and the last woman in his life. It is also quite
>>> expen- sive and has serious consequences.
>>>
>>> I don't see why you think it supports rape in some- wise.
>>
>> If a man wants to marry a particular woman, but she doesn't want him, he
>> can simply rape her, thus forcing the marriage on her for a fixed cost,
>> with no punishment. That's pretty pro-rape. The Bible is a guide to
>> the very worst sort of morals.
>
> Read the whole thing. Well, see Exodus 22: 16-17, which is part of the
> necessary context.
Exodus 22: 16-17:
-----
And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her,
he shall surely endow her to be his wife. If her father utterly
refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the
dowry of virgins.
-----
More evil in the bible, once again treating women like they are property.
But that is not as bad as forcing a victim of rape to MARRY her rapist and
be raped over and over and over.
> If the rape victim's father or other person who could speak for the girl or
> woman tells the guy to get lost, the guy still has to pay the money, and he
> doesn't get the girl.
The victim's FATHER! What about HER views? Women are NOT property (and
nothing in the other passage suggests anyone can stop the evil marriage
anyway).
> That's not a perfect solution, and it has its own problems when fathers are
> complicit, but in a society where the parents are complicit, there really
> isn't much to be done to protect the children.
How about NOT treating women like property.
How about NOT pretending the value of a women changes if she is or is not a
virgin?
These simple things would help make the bible not push such evil. But it
does.
> Except kill the parents ...
>
> which also is a really bad solution.
>
> Sometimes there is no good solution.
How about punish the rapist and not the raped. Yeah, seems a pretty easy
solution.
Does not mean we can always know for certain who is guilt of a crime, but
none of this has to do with finding out if someone is guilt -- that is just
assumed.
> If we want to read the Old Testament and apply it to our own selves, we have
> to try to understand the context and the intent and do a bit of what believers
> call prayerful interpretation.
In other words not take it at face value. OK.
> We have to start with the thought that maybe the intent was to protect women
> as much as possible without promoting prostitution (which is a difficult thing
> to try to do).
Why do we have to start with things that it does not say? And even then,
when it treats women as property that is NOT protection.
> And we have to remember that they really didn't have police, and the court
> system was significantly different from modern court systems.
OK, here I am largely with you: it was a different time and place and
society... and the rules were different. But to use THOSE rules in our
modern society is madness. It is a horrid book to get morals from.
> And then we have to read the whole thing before we jump to conclusions. For
> Christians, that includes the New Testament, where we read that the Law of
> Moses has been superseded (by, among other things, the Beatitudes, ca. Matthew
> 5).
Jesus in the NT is very clear that he is not replacing the old law and that
it still applies.
> For Jews, that would be the entire Torah, and a lot of external
> traditional books that explain how to apply principles of mercy.
>
> If you want to learn rape from the scriptures, you can, especially if you
> cherry-pick. If you want to learn respect, you can, but it takes more effort.
Again largely agree: yes, you CAN pick and choose passages and re-interpret
them to make them support a moral worldview... but to do that you have to
start with that moral worldview.
> It's kind of like writing a good C compiler. A few pages of pre-ANSI K&R just
> doesn't cut it.
>
> And we have to remember that even our modern legal systems suffer from
> corruption.
Absolutely!
> And if I continue this OT post, it will definitely turn into preaching where I
> shouldn't, if it hasn't already.
You share your ideas without preaching or trying to convert. Even though I
disagree with you in places, above, I have no issue with you posting what
you did. We might disagree but that is fine in my book.
--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.
They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>
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Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 16:08 +0300
Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-07 08:54 -0600
Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 10:06 -0700
Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 11:34 -0700
Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 10:12 -0700
Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 11:27 -0700
Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 11:53 -0700
Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] joel.rees@gmail.com - 2017-05-07 18:35 -0700
Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-05-08 02:07 +0000
Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 19:36 -0700
Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 20:02 -0700
Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 20:01 -0700
Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 20:01 -0700
Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-07 11:44 -0700
Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 22:35 +0300
Re: Rape in the Bible [was: Re: Why is Jesus the only way?] Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-09 13:00 -0700
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Re: Why is Jesus the only way? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 11:10 -0700
Re: Why is Jesus the only way? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-08 11:07 -0700
Why is Jesus the only way? cpascoshi@gmail.com - 2017-05-04 09:45 -0700
Re: Why is Jesus the only way? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 13:55 -0700
Re: Why is Jesus the only way? "max.muster@picca.de" <dominic.ernst91@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 02:42 -0700
Re: Why is Jesus the only way? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 03:27 -0700
Re: Why is Jesus the only way? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-05-11 09:12 -0700
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