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Re: Willingness to share a position statement?

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On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 06:15:27PM +0100, Martin Pitt wrote:
> Hello Sandro,
> 
> Sandro Tosi [2021-03-25 12:21 -0400]:
> > That scares me. what will happen to the list of people who disagree
> > with the ratification of the statement by Debian as a project? The
> > people that are so strongly pushing for this (and many other) actions
> > will have a list of (in their eyes) good and bad Debian members.
> 
> As this is is a highly political, divisive, and personal topic, not a technical
> one, I'd really hope that this would be a secret vote, much like the Debian
> leader voting?
> 
> You bring up a good point here. If this is going to be an open vote, then this
> is senseless political power play, and will only kindle the fire.
> 
> > And of course "nothing will happen, this is democracy at work", but
> > how can *I* be sure of that? how can anybody be sure that there wont
> > be anyone going thru decades of emails, twits, etc to find something
> > "incriminating" for those people, because they disagree with them? how
> > can i feel safe to vote no or FD in this GR?
> 
> Exactly -- if this is an open vote, I'm afraid that would merely force a
> (possibly) large number of Debian members to not vote at all. Honestly, in that
> light I haven't made up my mind yet either what to do..
> 
It also means that those who do not vote are by implication considered
to be in opposition.  Essentially, voting in this GR is implicitly
compulsory and there is only one correct way to vote.  It sort of looks
like the "free and fair" elections one might see in a communist country.

Why not dispense with the vote and simply have the DPL sign for the
project?  Then at least those who are not in agreement will not feel
directly targeted, though they may disagree with the outcome.

> > Why are you dragging Debian's name into this? We are not a political
> > entity, we are (in our own words:
> > https://www.debian.org/intro/philosophy) "an association of
> > individuals who have made common cause to create a free operating
> > system".
> > So go ahead, make your individuality be heard, sign (or not sign, it's
> > up to YOU!) the open letter as who you are, but please leave Deiban,
> > our technical project, outside of this fight.
> 
> Exactly -- big +1
> 

I understand that it is not always possible to be completely apolitical,
even for Debian as an organization.  However, Sandro brings a good point
regarding our own statement of Debian's purpose as a project.  If Debian
is to be a political activist organization, then we should amend our
constitution so that the characterization of Debian is consistent with
our actions as a project.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

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Thread

Willingness to share a position statement? Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@gwolf.org> - 2021-03-24 00:00 +0100
  Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2021-03-24 00:30 +0100
    Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2021-03-24 01:10 +0100
    Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Matthias Klumpp <mak@debian.org> - 2021-03-24 01:30 +0100
      Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Sruthi Chandran <srud@disroot.org> - 2021-03-24 08:50 +0100
      Re: Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Akhil Varkey <akhilvarkey@disroot.org> - 2021-03-25 10:20 +0100
      Re: Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Timo Röhling <timo@gaussglocke.de> - 2021-03-25 23:30 +0100
    Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2021-03-24 11:00 +0100
    Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Martina Ferrari <tina@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 00:10 +0100
      Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 08:00 +0100
  Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Harlan Lieberman-Berg <hlieberman@setec.io> - 2021-03-24 01:20 +0100
  Re: Willingness to share a position statement? M dB <deblanc@riseup.net> - 2021-03-24 01:50 +0100
    Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2021-03-24 23:10 +0100
      Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2021-03-25 09:50 +0100
        Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Sandro Tosi <morph@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 17:30 +0100
          Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Martin Pitt <mpitt@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 18:30 +0100
            Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Ansgar <ansgar@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 18:40 +0100
            Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 19:00 +0100
              Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Margarita Manterola <margamanterola@gmail.com> - 2021-03-25 19:20 +0100
                Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2021-03-25 19:30 +0100
                Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 19:40 +0100
                Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 20:10 +0100
                Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana <phls@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 20:20 +0100
                Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 19:30 +0100
                Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Gard Spreemann <gspr@nonempty.org> - 2021-03-25 19:30 +0100
              Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 20:30 +0100
                Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 20:50 +0100
              Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 22:50 +0100
                Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Christian Kastner <ckk@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 23:50 +0100
                Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Re: Willingness to share a position  statement? Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2021-03-26 01:10 +0100
                Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Re: Willingness to share a position  statement? Christian Kastner <ckk@debian.org> - 2021-03-26 08:50 +0100
                Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Re: Re: Willingness to share a position  statement? Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2021-03-26 09:40 +0100
                Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Re: Willingness to share a position  statement? Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2021-03-26 11:50 +0100
                Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Re: Willingness to share a position  statement? Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2021-03-26 17:00 +0100
            Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2021-03-25 21:20 +0100
              Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Sruthi Chandran <srud@disroot.org> - 2021-03-25 21:40 +0100
          Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Filippo Rusconi <lopippo@debian.org> - 2021-03-26 00:30 +0100
        Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 18:10 +0100
      Re: Willingness to share a position statement? (rms-open-letter) Bart Martens <bartm@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 11:50 +0100
        Question to Jonathan: What did you Mean Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 17:00 +0100
          Re: Question to Jonathan: What did you Mean Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 18:20 +0100
  Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Sruthi Chandran <srud@disroot.org> - 2021-03-24 09:10 +0100
  Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2021-03-24 14:10 +0100

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