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Re: string-stack.4th

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On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 5:13:27 AM UTC-7, Anton Ertl wrote:
> "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> writes:
> >Anton Ertl wrote:
> >
> >> > The address-length pair only make sense if the string
> >> > data is read directly from some kind of buffer and the buffer should
> >> > not/cannot be modified. This only makes sense for transient data,
> >> > e.g.  when parsing a word or string of which the string data that
> >> > can easily be discarded after use (e.g. when interpreting or
> >> > compiling and you only parse to, er, find out what to do next).
> >> 
> >> Much of my strings usage is like that.  A good reason to use c-addr u.
> >> Do you really want to copy a substring to a separate buffer (and where
> >> do you allocate that?) before you can, e.g., write it to a file?  I
> >> don't.
> >
> >No, of course not. Then you use c-addr u, like in other languages.
> 
> So that's why we have c-addr u.  Now adding another string
> representation complicates things.  I need to decide which string
> representation is appropriate where, have to keep track of which
> string representation is used where, have to insert conversion words
> in various places, have to write some words in two variants, etc.  And
> what benefit do we get for putting up with these complications?
> 
> > But
> >if you have to manipulate or keep around more than one string, and
> >these are referenced in more than one spot, it often makes sense to
> >have semi-permanent or permanent storage. So, yes, often such strings
> >are simply stored in the word, or in an allocated buffer, or, well, in
> >a separate heap, but then a double-cell "pointer" is useless.
> 
> The c-addr u representation is just as useful as ever: It tells you
> where the string starts and how long it is.

ANS-Forth is a cult. Being an ANS-Forth "programmer" is all about loyalty. Elizabeth Rather, the creator of ANS-Forth, has declared herself to be the "leading expert" of Forth, and she has surrounded herself with sycophants who accept this. The only interpretation of the title "leading expert" is that all Forth programmers are inferior to her in knowledge of Forth.

Like all cults, ANS-Forth is founded upon willful ignorance; knowledge is what the cult members hate and fear the most. Above we see Anton Ertl speaking out against my STRING-STACK.4TH --- most likely, he actually knows what COW (copy on write) is, but he is pretending that he is ignorant of this for the sake of the cult. Elizabeth Rather provided ANS-Forth with static buffers to hold strings (the <# #> and the S" buffer and PAD which is limited to 84 chars) because she is too dumb to know better. She says:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
People are much too phobic about [global] variables. The cry, "They aren't 
re-entrant" simply means you have to look at the whole application and how 
it is organized.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This works well when the "whole application" is small enough to fit on the chalkboard that she uses in her novice class at Forth Inc. (also taught by Andrew Haley, whom she appointed to the Forth-200x committee as a reward for his loyalty). This doesn't work well when the "whole application" is non-trivial. Also, this assumes that the programmer has the source-code for the "whole application," which isn't true if code-libraries are being used.

Elizabeth Rather is an ignoramus. By this, I mean that she is not just ignorant, but she is proud of her ignorance and she refuses to learn. She is really dumber than a box of rocks! The cult members who accept Elizabeth Rather as their "leading expert" are required to accept an abysmal level of ignorance for themselves so they can stay safely below their cult member. This is why I say that STRING-STACK.4TH will kill ANS-Forth --- code like this shines a spotlight on the stupidity of ANS-Forth --- the cult members are put in the awkward position of defending PAD as being superior --- this makes them look stupid, even by the standards of cults, which are pretty low. If I just said that ANS-Forth is stupid, but didn't write any ANS-Forth code, the cult members would respond by saying that I am incapable of writing ANS-Forth code and hence have nothing to say on the subject of ANS-Forth. Of course, the cult members say this anyway (Alex McDonald has spent almost 4 years saying that my array SORT proves that I have a "serious misunderstanding of how pointers work"), but their accusations are so ridiculous that they just make themselves look foolish --- every time that I write ANS-Forth code, this makes the ANS-Forth enthusiasts look foolish, which is why there is a dearth of volunteers to be ANS-Forth enthusiasts (none under the age of 40).

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Re: string-stack.4th hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-15 16:54 -0700
  Re: string-stack.4th hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-15 19:55 -0700
    Re: string-stack.4th Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 20:08 -0700
    Re: string-stack.4th "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-16 13:50 +0000
      Re: string-stack.4th anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-16 15:51 +0000
        Re: string-stack.4th "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-16 22:16 +0000
          Re: string-stack.4th anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-17 12:04 +0000
            Re: string-stack.4th hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-17 13:11 -0700
              Re: string-stack.4th "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-17 23:18 +0000
                Re: string-stack.4th albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-18 01:49 +0200
                Re: string-stack.4th "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-19 23:03 +0000
                Re: string-stack.4th "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-19 13:19 -1000
                Re: string-stack.4th "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-20 00:15 +0000
                Re: string-stack.4th "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-19 14:34 -1000
                Re: string-stack.4th "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-20 17:16 +0000
                Re: string-stack.4th hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-20 15:08 -0700
                Re: string-stack.4th "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-20 00:16 +0000
                Re: string-stack.4th albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-20 21:10 +0200
                Re: string-stack.4th "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 09:59 +0000
                Re: string-stack.4th albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-20 20:50 +0200
                Re: string-stack.4th hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-17 19:47 -0700
                Re: string-stack.4th "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-19 23:08 +0000
              Re: string-stack.4th hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-18 00:10 -0700
                Re: string-stack.4th Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-18 13:48 +0100
                Re: string-stack.4th hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-18 09:15 -0700
                Re: string-stack.4th Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-18 18:23 +0100
            Re: string-stack.4th "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-17 23:07 +0000
            Re: string-stack.4th hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-18 09:09 -0700
              Re: string-stack.4th lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-18 10:27 -0700
      Re: string-stack.4th hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-16 19:26 -0700
        Re: string-stack.4th "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-17 23:13 +0000
          Re: string-stack.4th hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-23 12:39 -0700
            Re: string-stack.4th Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-04-23 22:25 -0700
              Re: string-stack.4th foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-04-24 14:06 -0700
                Re: string-stack.4th "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 03:19 +0000
            Re: string-stack.4th Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 08:35 +0300
              Re: string-stack.4th Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-23 23:51 -0700
                Re: string-stack.4th hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-24 00:10 -0700
                Re: string-stack.4th Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 10:11 +0300
                Re: string-stack.4th Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-24 09:27 +0200
                Re: string-stack.4th Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-24 01:14 -0700
            Re: string-stack.4th Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-24 14:38 +0100
            Re: string-stack.4th "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 03:18 +0000
            Re: string-stack.4th "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 03:27 +0000
              Re: string-stack.4th hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-28 22:13 -0700
                Re: string-stack.4th Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-29 09:41 +0100
                Re: string-stack.4th hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-29 07:05 -0700
                Re: string-stack.4th "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 11:43 +0000
  Re: string-stack.4th hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-15 21:15 -0700

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