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| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it |
| Date | 2015-10-27 13:54 +0000 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <87si4wifhk.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <df0a7329-be47-4e24-80b0-35f6053400b3@googlegroups.com> <n0j8ha$du9$1@dont-email.me> <n0mdfd$bbe$1@dont-email.me> <slrnn2urkt.5q5.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid> <n0ntil$k8t$1@dont-email.me> |
Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> On 27/10/2015 12:31, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>> On Mon, 2015-10-26, Bartc wrote:
>
>>But I suspect too
>>> much of the code would be preoccupied with dealing with unreasonable input.
>>
>> Just be a little careful with the word "unreasonable": if I were to
>> give this as an exercise, I'd state that it was ok for the program to
>> abort on lines over 100 characters (or something) but if I used a tail
>> utility and it didn't cope with thousands of characters, I'd be
>> disappointed: that wouldn't be "reasonable" in that context.
>
> Whenever this comes up ('line-oriented' input), solutions are expected
> to work with gigantic (multi-GB) files containing a single multi-GB
> line of text.
That's unreasonable for an early student exercise in C. Until dynamic
allocation has been discussed, a fixed limit is perfectly reasonable.
> That's usually the reason why character-oriented approaches are
> preferred to line-buffered ones.
I prefer them (where they are possible) because they are often simpler
in C.
> Line-buffering however makes it easier to construct higher level
> solutions**.
That's one reason I used to like teaching C++. You can use relatively
high-level primitives at first (e.g. getline) but then you can explain
how they are implemented (or set that as an exercise) without leaving
the language. You can switch levels very easily.
You could do the same in C by giving the students a getline function
(not as source!) and later asking for an implementation of it, but my
experience is that students don't like that style. They often feel ever
so slightly patronised -- after all they are learning C to be "close to
the metal".
> Then there's file-buffering, which is in disfavour because it imposes
> an upper limit on the sizes of files it can cope with, but also it
> usually leads to endless discussions about file sizes and whether or
> not they can be meaningfully derived.
Cutting though the debates, it should be clear that the fundamental
distinction is between algorithms that seek the input and those that
don't; one pass or multi-pass algorithms; stream- or file-oriented
solutions. That's not a vacuous debate, it matters.
> In short, it's one of those subjects in clc where it is impossible to
> merely have a 'reasonable' solution which usually works well enough;
> it needs to be perfect.
Nonsense! Even the idea of a perfect solution is your invention to keep
the debate going. There is not such thing in the vast majority of
cases. The arguments simply come from people having different
perspectives. It seems that there are some (like you?) who are happy to
drop the requirement that a tool can process an un-seekable stream long
before others (like me) would be prepared to do.
<snip>
--
Ben.
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Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2015-10-24 02:17 -0700
Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-10-24 03:29 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2015-10-24 03:38 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-24 04:30 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-10-24 12:04 +0000
Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-10-24 04:59 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-24 14:28 +0100
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-10-24 07:26 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-24 17:06 +0100
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-24 11:56 -0400
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-24 12:02 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-24 15:45 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-24 16:28 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-24 16:44 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-24 19:34 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-24 19:30 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-24 20:33 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-28 11:16 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-10-28 15:12 -0400
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-29 12:18 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-10-29 21:51 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-30 08:38 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-30 05:34 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-28 14:08 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-30 06:14 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-28 21:50 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-28 15:08 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-28 22:47 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-28 18:35 -0500
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-28 18:12 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-29 01:35 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-28 21:12 -0500
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-28 19:52 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-28 18:01 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-30 03:47 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2015-10-24 09:54 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-24 12:13 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-24 21:50 +0100
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 04:04 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2015-10-25 08:32 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-25 18:19 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 11:30 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-25 18:56 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 20:59 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Anand Hariharan <mailto.anand.hariharan@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 21:49 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-26 08:10 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Anand Hariharan <mailto.anand.hariharan@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 16:05 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-27 00:34 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-27 09:04 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-27 21:24 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-26 18:16 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-27 02:33 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-27 09:08 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-26 11:22 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-26 11:35 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-26 17:00 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-26 17:59 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-26 07:55 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-26 17:06 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-26 10:56 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-26 20:14 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-26 17:09 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-26 23:39 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-27 12:31 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-27 12:45 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-27 13:24 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-27 13:41 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-27 19:43 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-27 19:47 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-27 13:20 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-27 13:28 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-27 13:54 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-27 07:51 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-27 16:46 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-27 10:52 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-27 18:51 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-27 12:17 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-27 19:34 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-27 13:10 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-27 13:41 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-27 23:11 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-27 19:02 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-10-28 07:09 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-28 11:27 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-27 12:27 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-27 13:18 -0700
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