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| From | Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it |
| Date | 2015-10-28 14:08 -0700 |
| Organization | None to speak of |
| Message-ID | <lntwpabt1j.fsf@kst-u.example.com> (permalink) |
| References | (1 earlier) <562BAA43.8090700@verizon.net> <ln1tckum2z.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <d84e0f4b-aeab-411c-bf96-49c96113647e@googlegroups.com> <ln7fmbu9qd.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <kfna8r2dfjb.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu> |
Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> writes:
[big snip]
>> supercat@casperkitty.com writes:
>>> On Saturday, October 24, 2015 at 6:29:17 PM UTC-5, Keith Thompson wrote:
[...]
>>>> I disagree; there's nothing coincidental about it. `if (ptr)` and
>>>> `if (ptr != NULL)` are semantically identical. The latter expresses
>>>> my intent more clearly.
>>>
>>> Different people parse things differently; I consider both to be idiomatic
>>> and don't have any problem with either, though I never use the NULL macro
>>
>> I also consider both to be idiomatic. I simply prefer the more explicit
>> form, for reasons I've explained.
>
> It was reading this very last phrase that prompted me to go back
> and look at the earlier comments more closely. On doing that I
> didn't come away with very much. What you're saying strikes me
> as mostly just circular - you prefer the explicit form because it
> makes the pointerness more explicit. As an explanation that
> isn't very satisfying. Can you say it another way? What I think
> you mean is that putting in the "!= NULL" part conveys more
> information, with the unstated assumption that the extra information
> is (in these cases) always valuable. Does this comment capture,
> or at least largely capture, what you're trying to express? If
> it doesn't, can you say more about what that is?
Yes, that's pretty much what I was trying to say.
> Assuming that my rephrasing above is more or less on the money,
> I would like to offer another viewpoint. In most cases I would
> not include an explicit comparison for pointers (either to NULL
> or to 0) because it doesn't tell me anything I don't already
> know. For example, compare
>
> if(p && *p != 0) ...
>
> if(p != NULL && *p != 0) ...
>
> I don't need the "!= NULL", because it's obvious that the
> variable p is a pointer. Furthermore I would argue that
> routinely using "!= NULL" (or "== NULL") everywhere is actually
> harmful, because using it everywhere will lessen the impact in
> those places where it really is important to emphasize the
> pointerness. If we use "!= NULL" to convey the information that
> the thing being compared is a pointer -- which usually isn't very
> much information -- we give up the possibility of using "!= NULL"
> to convey other information that the writer might want to
> express, and which can be a lot more significant.
>
> I agree that doing an explicit comparision (eg, "!= NULL") can
> sometimes be an aid to helping code be easier to read and
> understand. But I think it is wrong to conclude that therefore
> there should be a rule for doing so always.
Yes, that's another viewpoint, and I don't have any concrete
arguments that it's invalid.
To expand on my own viewpoint, consider a non-C language (Pascal and
Ada are examples) in which only values of type Boolean (or bool,
or whatever the language calls it) can be used as conditions.
If you want to test whether a pointer is null or not, or whether
an integer is zero or not, you have to do an explicit comparison
or it won't compile.
When I'm programming in such a language, I don't miss the ability
to write terse conditions like `if (p)` at all. And when I'm
programming in C, I don't find that ability particularly tempting
or useful.
You suggest writing the "!= NULL" in some cases when it's "a lot
more significant", and omitting it when it isn't. Personally,
I find it easier and clearer just to use it consistently.
And if I see some code with the "!= NULL" being written out in some
cases but not in others, it likely won't occur to me that the ones
where it's written explicitly are more significant, so the choice of
whether to write "!= NULL" or not doesn't convey any real information
to me.
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
Back to comp.lang.c | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2015-10-24 02:17 -0700
Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-10-24 03:29 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2015-10-24 03:38 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-24 04:30 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-10-24 12:04 +0000
Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-10-24 04:59 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-24 14:28 +0100
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-10-24 07:26 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-24 17:06 +0100
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-24 11:56 -0400
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-24 12:02 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-24 15:45 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-24 16:28 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-24 16:44 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-24 19:34 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-24 19:30 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-24 20:33 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-28 11:16 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-10-28 15:12 -0400
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-29 12:18 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-10-29 21:51 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-30 08:38 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-30 05:34 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-28 14:08 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-30 06:14 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-28 21:50 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-28 15:08 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-28 22:47 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-28 18:35 -0500
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-28 18:12 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-29 01:35 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-28 21:12 -0500
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-28 19:52 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-28 18:01 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-30 03:47 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2015-10-24 09:54 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-24 12:13 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-24 21:50 +0100
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 04:04 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2015-10-25 08:32 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-25 18:19 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 11:30 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-25 18:56 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 20:59 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Anand Hariharan <mailto.anand.hariharan@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 21:49 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-26 08:10 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Anand Hariharan <mailto.anand.hariharan@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 16:05 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-27 00:34 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-27 09:04 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-27 21:24 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-26 18:16 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-27 02:33 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-27 09:08 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-26 11:22 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-26 11:35 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-26 17:00 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-26 17:59 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-26 07:55 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-26 17:06 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-26 10:56 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-26 20:14 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-26 17:09 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-26 23:39 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-27 12:31 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-27 12:45 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-27 13:24 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-27 13:41 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-27 19:43 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-27 19:47 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-27 13:20 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-27 13:28 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-27 13:54 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-27 07:51 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-27 16:46 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-27 10:52 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-27 18:51 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-27 12:17 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-27 19:34 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-27 13:10 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-27 13:41 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-27 23:11 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-27 19:02 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-10-28 07:09 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-28 11:27 +0000
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-27 12:27 -0700
Re: Issues with setting variables to true or false: how does the compiler understands it supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-27 13:18 -0700
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