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Re: C String terminator

From Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: C String terminator
Date 2020-04-06 21:51 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87mu7o9w2m.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References (16 earlier) <0838cd07-3924-4e2f-b706-52f54ad60ba2@googlegroups.com> <87pnckc2sb.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <56fbdc1a-62fe-4b91-af72-1f65a78e7128@googlegroups.com> <87eet0bpbs.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <ca19cb62-da71-4bcc-bf84-2242466a15ae@googlegroups.com>

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Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:

> On Monday, 6 April 2020 16:34:40 UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse  wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:> 
>
>> Then my two examples above don't fit.  That is unless you are taking the
>> view that the entire state of the program store is some sort of implied
>> parameter to every function, and that is also forms part of the result.
>> If that is your view, then your more recent statements about calculating
>> a valued based on "inputs" are disingenuous to the point of being
>> deceptions.
>>
> I think the penny has finally dropped.

For whom?

Are you saying you now see how you have been misleading people with
examples like sqrt, and quoting the definition of a mathematical
function?  Unless you make it clear that the whole store (well, any part
this is directly or indirectly accessible) is an implicit parameter,
saying that rand() and swap() are Malcolm functions (and thus like a
mathematical functions) is highly misleading.

> The commonsense and useful
> defintion of a "function" is "code that doesn't do IO".

I don't find it useful, and it does not square with my common sense, but
that does not matter.  Can you back up the claim that in "normal
English" a procedure is code that does IO?  If not, let's keep the
Malcolm prefix to avoid confusion.

Anyway, it seems you are trying to be somewhat clear now -- a Malcolm
procedure does IO and everything else is a Malcolm function.  Got it.

<cut>
> malloc() and the pointer it returns is a special case.

And then, in a flash, I don't have it!

I don't see the point of this if you won't address these marginal cases.
You did not even answer my questions about what constitutes IO, and you
already have special cases without saying anything more than they are
special...

Even the notion of "doing" is up for grabs.  Does a Malcolm function
become a Malcolm procedure when a function (C sense) that it calls is
changed to do some IO?  What happens when the IO is done (or not done)
in a function passed to a Malcolm function as a pointer?

>> > Then what I've said is that if a function does both - it both takes
>> > an action and calculates something, it's a "procedure". That's maybe
>> > an original step.
>> 
>> The original step is to say that doing IO makes code a procedure and not
>> doing IO makes it a function.  That all you, as far as I can tell.
>> 
> That's step one. Step two is to say, "separate your procedures from
> your functions".

Until you can show otherwise, they are clearly Malcolm procedures, and
just to be clear, they are all functions as far as C in concerned.

-- 
Ben.

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Thread

Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-16 02:25 -0800
  Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-02-16 14:24 -0800
    Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-22 08:13 -0800
      Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-02-22 09:05 -0800
        Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-03-27 19:58 -0700
          Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-03-27 23:26 -0700
            Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-02 09:21 -0700
              Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-02 09:54 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-02 11:17 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-02 13:12 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-02 13:28 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-02 19:17 -0700
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-03 09:47 +0200
                Re: C String terminator already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2020-04-03 08:03 -0700
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-03 17:34 +0200
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-03 12:39 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-04-03 18:05 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 10:18 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-03 22:13 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 14:36 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 16:18 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 01:43 -0700
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-04 18:23 +0200
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 11:18 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 13:02 -0700
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-05 21:54 +0200
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-05 13:59 -0700
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-06 09:07 +0200
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 02:25 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-06 11:43 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 03:56 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-06 16:34 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 10:30 -0700
                Re: C String terminator richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2020-04-06 17:50 +0000
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 11:31 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 12:04 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-06 21:51 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 14:34 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 14:39 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 14:52 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 15:31 -0700
                Re: C String terminator jameskuyper@stellarscience.com - 2020-04-06 16:05 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-07 03:08 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-04-06 21:12 -0600
                Re: C String terminator scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-04-07 16:55 +0000
                Re: C String terminator Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-04-07 11:05 -0600
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-07 20:39 +0200
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 11:48 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-04-07 21:21 -0600
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-07 20:40 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-08 01:41 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-08 07:40 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-08 08:16 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-08 09:17 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-08 09:46 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-08 10:37 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-08 10:48 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-04-08 14:07 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-08 11:29 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-08 16:46 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-09 01:57 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-09 08:42 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-09 08:56 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-04-09 12:42 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-09 10:12 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-04-09 15:51 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-09 13:02 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-09 13:06 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-09 14:49 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-04-09 19:05 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-10 02:25 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-04-10 04:38 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-10 05:21 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-04-10 07:13 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-10 11:38 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2020-04-11 17:38 +0000
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-11 15:04 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-04-11 15:16 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-11 21:45 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 04:39 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-12 21:34 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 14:38 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-04-13 11:13 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 08:24 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-11 15:08 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-09 09:53 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-07 14:35 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-04-06 21:04 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 01:16 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 02:08 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 02:19 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 08:42 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 10:39 -0700
                Re: C String terminator scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-04-07 17:45 +0000
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-07 14:40 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 11:03 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 11:14 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 12:19 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-07 12:02 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-04-07 06:27 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 07:44 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-04-07 08:30 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 00:27 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-07 12:50 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 05:25 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-07 23:52 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-08 03:15 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-08 21:28 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-08 15:40 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-09 00:31 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2020-04-07 21:40 +0000
                Re: C String terminator luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 09:41 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 12:46 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2020-04-07 17:17 +0200
                Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-09 07:23 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-04 22:32 +0100
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-03 21:59 +0200
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-03 23:48 -0400
                Jared Kushner would be proud... (Was: C String terminator) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2020-04-04 09:00 +0000
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... (Was: C String terminator) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 02:45 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... (Was: C String terminator) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-04-04 10:24 +0000
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... (Was: C String terminator) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 03:55 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 13:27 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 13:52 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 14:12 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 15:12 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 15:03 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-04-04 18:46 -0400
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-05 01:53 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-05 02:33 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-05 06:43 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... (Was: C String terminator) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-04 19:48 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... (Was: C String terminator) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-04 06:37 -0700
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-04 18:36 +0200
                Re: C String terminator dave_thompson_2@comcast.net - 2020-05-02 15:13 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 09:41 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 10:33 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 11:14 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 11:34 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-03 14:48 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 12:10 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 13:24 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-03 23:59 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-03 22:05 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-04 20:34 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-05 02:05 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-09 07:35 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-09 07:38 -0700

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