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Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2)

From Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.theory
Subject Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2)
Date 2022-05-13 01:35 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87k0aq1d74.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <66idnbnmOdNtyeH_nZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> <87fslf5ze1.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <dbudnSEVKLqG7OH_nZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> <87ilqa2wgk.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <2e-dnTTLY8HyC-D_nZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>

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olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:

> On 5/12/2022 5:54 PM, Ben wrote:
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>> 
>>> On 5/11/2022 8:10 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/11/2022 7:17 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ]
>>>>>> There are no arguments that can be passed to H so that H can correctly
>>>>>> report on the halting of the function call P(P).  H falls at the first
>>>>>> hurdle: being able to decide the halting of specific function calls.
>>>>>
>>>>> A halt decider must only correctly report on the halt status of its
>>>>> inputs. H(P,P)==0 and H1(P,P)==1 both do that correctly.
>>>>
>>>> The "inputs" to H are two pointers.  They have no halt status.
>>>
>>> This is such a nutty thing to say when you already know that strings
>>> are always passed in C as char* pointers.
>> No pair of pointers has a halt status -- a fact I think you are aware of
>> since you appear to using this silly mantra to hide your key problem: H
>> gives the wrong answer as far as everyone but you is concerned.
>> In the context of H, what has a halt status is a function call.  What H
>> should report is the whether calling the first pointer with the second
>> as its argument would or would not halt.
>> Your vague language about the "halt status of its inputs" is
>> deliberately designed to hide the truth: that H is not doing what it
>> should because H(P,P) == false even though P(P) halts.
>
> Being a learned-by-rote by-the-book person anything that goes against
> the book must be wrong because the book establishes the conventional
> view. This view is generally locked into academia by groupthink.
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/groupthink

Being an ignorant-of-the-subject person, you don't know what you are
talking about.

> It is objectively incorrect to say that a halt decider must base its
> halt decision on anything other than the actual behavior actually
> specified by its actual input such as H(P,P) reporting on P(P).

You have entered the twilight zone.  What is objectively correct is
based on the definition of the problem.  If there are no "inputs" to H
that specify the call P(P) then H is useless.  But at least you accept
that H can't report on P(P) correctly.  You used to simply pretend that
the wrong answer was the right one.

I am stunned that you don't see that you can't avoid the problem.  What
everyone wants -- a function D(X,Y) to determine if X(Y) would or would
not halt -- is not possible and you are admitting that fact as if it's
of no interest to you.  You are wrong about why there is no such D, but
you agree that the problem can't be solved.

> It is also objectively incorrect to assume that actual behavior
> actually specified by the actual input to a halt decider will always
> be identical to the direct execution of the corresponding
> computation.

One way or another, we only care about the useful one.  What the "actual
behavior actually specified by the actual input" is of no interest to
us if it does correspond the "direct execution of the corresponding
computation".  We want something that tells up about direct function
calls.

> This was previously unknown before my research.

Don't be so pompous!  Your new mantra is just a ruse to draw attention
away from the fact that you clearly accept that what everyone else has
been talking about can't be done.

-- 
Ben.
"le génie humain a des limites, quand la bêtise humaine n’en a pas"
Alexandre Dumas (fils)

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Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 13:07 -0500
  Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-11 20:11 +0100
    Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 19:23 -0500
      Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 21:02 -0400
      Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 18:31 +0100
        Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 12:43 -0500
      Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 18:43 +0100
        Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 12:45 -0500
          Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 18:47 +0100
            Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 12:51 -0500
              Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 19:00 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 13:06 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 19:13 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 21:12 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 15:18 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 23:58 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 18:28 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 01:40 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 20:32 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 21:48 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 13:38 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 20:56 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 19:09 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 18:50 -0400
              Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 18:46 -0400
          Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 18:45 -0400
  Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 19:41 -0400
  Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 01:17 +0100
    Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 19:29 -0500
      Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 20:52 -0400
      Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 02:10 +0100
        Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 21:29 -0500
          Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 23:02 -0400
          Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 23:54 +0100
            Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 18:21 -0500
              Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-13 00:24 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 18:42 -0500
              Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 01:35 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 20:25 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 21:41 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 12:05 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 12:01 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 20:06 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 14:24 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 16:11 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 15:22 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 13:26 -0700
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 15:38 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-13 21:44 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 13:27 -0700
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 17:22 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 16:48 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 18:04 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 17:06 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 19:07 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 18:09 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 19:20 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 18:26 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 20:04 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 19:20 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 20:41 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-05-13 19:03 -0600
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 21:21 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 22:37 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 23:46 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 17:57 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 19:09 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 18:18 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 20:09 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-14 01:03 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 19:11 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-14 01:18 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 19:22 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-14 01:28 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-14 11:45 +0300
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-14 04:28 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-14 15:55 +0300
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-14 08:53 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-15 12:05 +0300
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-13 16:11 +0300
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 11:15 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-14 11:26 +0300
              Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 21:03 -0400
  Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-13 16:02 +0300
  Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 12:21 -0700

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