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Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2)

From Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.theory
Subject Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2)
Date 2022-05-13 13:38 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87h75tzjyv.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References (10 earlier) <L-ydnag1-YUx9uD_nZ2dnUU7_8xh4p2d@giganews.com> <87bkw22w9v.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <14mdnf3FjKW4BeD_nZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> <87ee0y1czv.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <D7WdnSno4syOKOD_nZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com>

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olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:

> On 5/12/2022 7:40 PM, Ben wrote:
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>> 
>>> On 5/12/2022 5:58 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/12/2022 3:12 PM, Ben wrote:
>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The halting criteria has been adapted so that
>>>>>>
>>>>>> H is no longer a halt decider.
>>>> <cut various errors>
>>>>
>>>>> My only point is that the input to embedded_H does specifies
>>>>> infinitely nested simulation contradicting Flibble's claim that it
>>>>> does not, thus my H(P,P) is equivalent to embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩.
>>>> You made lots of point.  Many of them wrong.  I pointed out some of the
>>>> errors.
>>>> But since you are now unashamedly admitting to using an adapted
>>>> criterion for halting, is there any point in carrying on?
>>>
>>> I proved that the criteria for halting is objectively incorrect.
>> It can't be incorrect.  It's a definition.  And it's based on the most
>> natural notion: is the sequence of TM configurations finite or not.
>
> It is an objectively verifiable fact that the sequence of
> configurations specified by the input to H(P,P) is not the same as the
> one specified by P(P).

Who cares?  Only you.  You accept, now, that you can't write a D that
does what everyone but you wants: D(X,Y) == true if and only if X(Y)
halts and false otherwise.

You are done with halting now because you are not making any claims to
have anything to say about what the world calls halting.

> When you have two definitions in computer science that directly
> contradict each other what do you do? Toss out at least one of them.

No.  Whatever your H is deciding might be interesting.  I don't think
so, but there's no reason to toss it out just because it does not decide
halting.

-- 
Ben.
"le génie humain a des limites, quand la bêtise humaine n’en a pas"
Alexandre Dumas (fils)

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Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 13:07 -0500
  Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-11 20:11 +0100
    Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 19:23 -0500
      Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 21:02 -0400
      Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 18:31 +0100
        Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 12:43 -0500
      Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 18:43 +0100
        Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 12:45 -0500
          Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 18:47 +0100
            Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 12:51 -0500
              Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 19:00 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 13:06 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 19:13 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 21:12 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 15:18 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 23:58 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 18:28 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 01:40 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 20:32 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 21:48 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 13:38 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 20:56 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 19:09 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 18:50 -0400
              Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 18:46 -0400
          Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 18:45 -0400
  Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 19:41 -0400
  Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 01:17 +0100
    Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 19:29 -0500
      Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 20:52 -0400
      Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 02:10 +0100
        Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 21:29 -0500
          Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 23:02 -0400
          Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 23:54 +0100
            Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 18:21 -0500
              Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-13 00:24 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 18:42 -0500
              Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 01:35 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 20:25 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 21:41 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 12:05 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 12:01 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 20:06 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 14:24 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 16:11 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 15:22 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 13:26 -0700
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 15:38 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-13 21:44 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 13:27 -0700
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 17:22 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 16:48 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 18:04 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 17:06 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 19:07 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 18:09 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 19:20 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 18:26 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 20:04 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 19:20 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 20:41 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-05-13 19:03 -0600
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 21:21 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 22:37 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 23:46 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 17:57 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 19:09 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 18:18 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 20:09 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-14 01:03 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 19:11 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-14 01:18 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 19:22 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-14 01:28 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-14 11:45 +0300
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-14 04:28 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-14 15:55 +0300
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-14 08:53 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-15 12:05 +0300
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-13 16:11 +0300
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 11:15 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-14 11:26 +0300
              Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 21:03 -0400
  Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-13 16:02 +0300
  Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 12:21 -0700

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