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| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] |
| Date | 2021-07-22 01:12 +0100 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <87bl6vjjed.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <47udna5Uo4vDD2j9nZ2dnUU7-VvNnZ2d@giganews.com> <877dhlizz2.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <RP2dnYuABuqLQWv9nZ2dnUU7-I3NnZ2d@giganews.com> <87y2a0ldcq.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <sNqdnZ0iReomrmX9nZ2dnUU7-V3NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
> On 7/20/2021 7:28 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 7/19/2021 7:35 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> You said :
>>>>>>>>>> you've told us that your H gets this case wrong:
>>>>> You know damn well that I never said that H gets this case wrong.
>>>> You know it gets this case wrong, and you told us exactly how and why:
>>>> Me: Every computation that halts, for whatever reason, is a halting
>>>> computation.
>>>> You: OK
>>>>
>>>>> void P(u32 x)
>>>>> {
>>>>> if (H(x, x))
>>>>> HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> int main()
>>>>> {
>>>>> P((u32)P);
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> The fact is that the above computation never ever halts unless...
>>>> The fact is that P(P) halts (according to you). H(P,P) == 0 (according
>>>> to you). That is wrong, and you've known it's wrong for a very long
>>>> time.
>>>
>>> The above computation that is not under the supervision of H is an
>>> entirely different computation than the one that is under the
>>> supervision of H.
>> Of course. But that does not tell me which of the facts are you now
>> disputing:
>> (a) P(P) halts.
>> (b) H(P, P) == 0.
>> (c) H(P, I) == 0 is only correct if P(I) does not halt.
>> I hope it's (c) so that we can all ignore what say from now on.
>
> Even though the outermost P does reach its final state
P(P) halts. You agree with (a). Not surprising since you've told us
P(P) halts many times.
> it only reaches it final state because H correctly decided that its
> input never halts.
So you agree with (b) that H(P, P) == 0. Again, not really news as
you've said it before.
> Because of this the argument that the outer P reaches its final state
> contradicts that H decided its input correctly DOES NOT HOLD.
So you disagree that H(P, I) == 0 is only correct if P(I) does not halt,
i.e. you disagree with the basic fact of what a halt decider is. Again,
not surprising you've ducked and dived and squirmed and wriggled to
avoid agreeing to this simple of the problem.
This is just simple dishonesty. You keep quoting Linz so you know what
a halt decider should do. You once claimed to have an H "exactly and
precisely as in Linz" (we'll never see that TM will we?). When you post
those lines from Linz you don't say "but this is wrong, H can reject
some halting computations". You disingenuously present them as the
definition of a halt decider with which you tacitly agree.
And it's not just when you quote Linz that you are being disingenuous.
I once presented a challenge with exactly the above notion of what a
halt decider is. Did you say "I disagree that H(P, I) == 0 is only
correct if P(I) does not halt"? No, you just waffled and then pretended
to meet the challenge by posting a code sketch for a function called
Halts that got the answer wrong. I think you've know for ages that you
must hide the fact that you are not talking about proper halting.
You must know by now that you have nothing -- just a
function/TM/algorithm that does not meet the basic definition of being a
halt decider. How many years have you wasted to get this
not-a-halt-decider?
--
Ben.
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Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-16 19:00 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 19:28 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-16 19:31 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 14:24 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-07-16 19:46 +0000
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 14:56 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-16 20:56 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 15:00 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-07-16 22:42 +0000
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-07-16 22:24 +0000
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 17:32 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-07-16 22:54 +0000
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 23:15 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-07-17 09:10 +0000
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-17 09:37 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-17 17:24 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-17 12:06 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-18 02:45 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-18 12:26 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 09:41 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-20 01:36 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-07-17 17:11 +0000
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-17 07:40 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-17 16:47 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-17 16:37 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) [ Flibble is correct ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-17 11:40 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) [ Flibble is correct ] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-18 11:43 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2021-07-18 12:13 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-18 15:15 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-18 07:42 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-18 17:02 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-18 10:12 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-18 13:22 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-18 12:30 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Pathological self-reference error (Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 08:41 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-18 19:55 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-18 21:00 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-18 14:22 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-18 20:08 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-19 02:06 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-19 21:09 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-20 11:24 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 03:43 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-20 13:53 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-20 14:02 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 06:30 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-20 10:22 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-19 09:11 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-19 01:13 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-19 11:34 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-19 02:24 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-19 13:06 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-19 04:52 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-19 08:14 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 08:43 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-19 21:12 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 09:16 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-19 21:25 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 00:38 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 09:43 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) [ Flibble is correct ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 09:48 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Newberry <newberryxy@gmail.com> - 2021-07-19 13:30 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) "dklei...@gmail.com" <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 16:16 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-20 17:21 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) "dklei...@gmail.com" <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 16:37 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-20 18:37 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-20 18:02 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 23:32 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-21 08:17 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-21 09:24 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Newberry <newberryxy@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 23:26 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 21:57 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-16 22:06 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 16:10 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-16 22:22 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 16:30 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 13:31 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 21:46 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 16:07 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 23:59 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-17 10:35 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-18 03:32 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 09:55 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-20 01:35 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-20 09:22 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-20 08:40 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-20 10:18 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-20 09:29 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 09:45 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-20 10:33 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-21 01:28 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-21 09:48 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-21 09:41 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-22 01:12 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-21 20:27 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-21 18:37 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-21 20:49 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-21 19:01 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-22 02:49 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-21 20:57 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-21 19:19 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-21 20:57 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-21 22:25 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-21 21:50 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-21 23:40 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-21 22:26 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-22 00:55 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-22 08:04 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-22 08:23 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved (title is a misnomer) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-22 09:52 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (title is a misnomer) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-22 10:24 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-22 10:22 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-22 21:53 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-22 16:47 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-22 14:54 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-23 00:04 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-22 18:22 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-23 00:53 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 09:04 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 09:41 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-23 22:13 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 16:54 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 15:19 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-25 04:02 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-22 18:05 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 08:36 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 08:51 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-21 21:04 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-19 21:17 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 23:59 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) [Ben is a liar ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-17 10:38 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) [Ben is a liar ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-18 03:12 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) [Ben is a liar ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 10:02 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) [Ben is a liar ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-20 01:36 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Charlie-Boo <shymathguy@gmail.com> - 2021-07-22 08:12 -0700
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