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Re: C String terminator

From Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: C String terminator
Date 2020-04-04 22:32 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87a73rc4xl.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References (16 earlier) <874ku09ssw.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <6bf35dde-de1f-4635-a69d-4d4860d84a29@googlegroups.com> <877dywqhtv.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <13e81aac-375b-45ba-9261-8153c406368c@googlegroups.com> <r6ac9d$5vi$1@dont-email.me>

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David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:

> On 04/04/2020 10:43, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>> On Saturday, 4 April 2020 00:18:30 UTC+1, Keith Thompson  wrote:
>>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> On Friday, 3 April 2020 22:13:28 UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse  wrote:
>>>>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ... I was accused of inventing "Malcolm functions" (a "Malcolm
>>>>>> function" is a mapping of input bits to output bits,
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it?  I thought a key feature of Malcolm-functions is that they don't
>>>>> do input or output.  Or do you mean Malcolm-input and Malcolm-output?
>>>>>
>>>> Really the key feature is that they are not specified to do IO in
>>>> the interface description. So you can always eliminate the IO whilst
>>>> maintaining correct behaviour for a compliant caller. That's not just a
>>>> quibble, often you want to add white box diagnostics to a Malcolm function
>>>> to debug it.
>>>> So yes, Malcolm-input and Malcolm-output. The key reason for defining
>>>> the Malcolm function is not to teach people what the word "function"
>>>> normally means outside of C, but to separate the portions of the program
>>>> which are inherently portable and (except for running out of memory)
>>>> failure free, from those which are inherently hardware bound and can
>>>> fail if the device they are attached to fails.
>>>
>>> *sigh*
>>>
>>> I believe the point Ben was making is that you used the terms
>>> "input" and "output" (which are used in the C standard to refer
>>> to operations like those done by functions declared in <stdio.h>)
>>> to refer to the values given to and returned by a function call.
>>> There are already perfectly good terms for those: argument values
>>> and return values.  I presume Ben knew what you *meant* by "input"
>>> and "output", but was unwilling to accept your use of those terms.
>>>
>> No. I don't think this was the case at all.
>
> I interpreted Ben's post in the same way Keith did.  But only Ben can
> say if that was how he intended it.

Yes, exactly.  I knew what was probably meant, but given the context, it
seemed likely that Malcolm was winding people up by using "input" and
"output" to mean something other than IO.  Maybe he wasn't, but I
replied to what was written in order to make the point.

<cut>
-- 
Ben.

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Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-16 02:25 -0800
  Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-02-16 14:24 -0800
    Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-22 08:13 -0800
      Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-02-22 09:05 -0800
        Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-03-27 19:58 -0700
          Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-03-27 23:26 -0700
            Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-02 09:21 -0700
              Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-02 09:54 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-02 11:17 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-02 13:12 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-02 13:28 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-02 19:17 -0700
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-03 09:47 +0200
                Re: C String terminator already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2020-04-03 08:03 -0700
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-03 17:34 +0200
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-03 12:39 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-04-03 18:05 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 10:18 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-03 22:13 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 14:36 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 16:18 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 01:43 -0700
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-04 18:23 +0200
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 11:18 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 13:02 -0700
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-05 21:54 +0200
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-05 13:59 -0700
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-06 09:07 +0200
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 02:25 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-06 11:43 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 03:56 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-06 16:34 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 10:30 -0700
                Re: C String terminator richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2020-04-06 17:50 +0000
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 11:31 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 12:04 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-06 21:51 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 14:34 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 14:39 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 14:52 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 15:31 -0700
                Re: C String terminator jameskuyper@stellarscience.com - 2020-04-06 16:05 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-07 03:08 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-04-06 21:12 -0600
                Re: C String terminator scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-04-07 16:55 +0000
                Re: C String terminator Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-04-07 11:05 -0600
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-07 20:39 +0200
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 11:48 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-04-07 21:21 -0600
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-07 20:40 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-08 01:41 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-08 07:40 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-08 08:16 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-08 09:17 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-08 09:46 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-08 10:37 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-08 10:48 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-04-08 14:07 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-08 11:29 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-08 16:46 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-09 01:57 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-09 08:42 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-09 08:56 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-04-09 12:42 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-09 10:12 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-04-09 15:51 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-09 13:02 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-09 13:06 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-09 14:49 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-04-09 19:05 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-10 02:25 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-04-10 04:38 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-10 05:21 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-04-10 07:13 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-10 11:38 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2020-04-11 17:38 +0000
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-11 15:04 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-04-11 15:16 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-11 21:45 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 04:39 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-12 21:34 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 14:38 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-04-13 11:13 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 08:24 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-11 15:08 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-09 09:53 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-07 14:35 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-04-06 21:04 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 01:16 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 02:08 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 02:19 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 08:42 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 10:39 -0700
                Re: C String terminator scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-04-07 17:45 +0000
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-07 14:40 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 11:03 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 11:14 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 12:19 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-07 12:02 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-04-07 06:27 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 07:44 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-04-07 08:30 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 00:27 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-07 12:50 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-07 05:25 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-07 23:52 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-08 03:15 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-08 21:28 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-08 15:40 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-09 00:31 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2020-04-07 21:40 +0000
                Re: C String terminator luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 09:41 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 12:46 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2020-04-07 17:17 +0200
                Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-09 07:23 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-04 22:32 +0100
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-03 21:59 +0200
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-03 23:48 -0400
                Jared Kushner would be proud... (Was: C String terminator) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2020-04-04 09:00 +0000
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... (Was: C String terminator) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 02:45 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... (Was: C String terminator) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-04-04 10:24 +0000
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... (Was: C String terminator) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 03:55 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 13:27 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 13:52 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 14:12 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 15:12 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 15:03 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-04-04 18:46 -0400
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-05 01:53 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-05 02:33 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-05 06:43 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... (Was: C String terminator) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-04 19:48 -0700
                Re: Jared Kushner would be proud... (Was: C String terminator) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-04 06:37 -0700
                Re: C String terminator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-04-04 18:36 +0200
                Re: C String terminator dave_thompson_2@comcast.net - 2020-05-02 15:13 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 09:41 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 10:33 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 11:14 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 11:34 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-03 14:48 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 12:10 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-04-03 13:24 -0700
                Re: C String terminator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-03 23:59 -0400
                Re: C String terminator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-04-03 22:05 +0100
                Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-04 20:34 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-05 02:05 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-09 07:35 -0700
                Re: C String terminator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-04-09 07:38 -0700

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