Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi.

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi.
Date	2015-09-28 20:44 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87612ue3cr.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	(9 earlier) <eea43af9-7b96-42b7-a341-3fff59cb84f0@googlegroups.com> <d6gqa0FjkhcU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <mtvn2u$f84$1@dont-email.me> <87pp18f7sa.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <9027a566-6b00-46c9-b3f0-157802a673ef@googlegroups.com>

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Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:

> On Thursday, September 24, 2015 at 11:09:44 AM UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> 
>> Much C is written with a hidden assumption that int is 32 bits (so
>> uint32_t won't promote), or that integer overflow is harmless in that it
>> will "wrap round" as so many processors now do.  
>> I think supercat makes some good points.  C has all sorts of annoyances
>> that make writing fast portable code hard, and he or she is clearly not
>> just another of the "C should define everything like Java does" posters
>> that pop up with such regularity.  
>>
> The vast majority of integers in most programs are indices, 
> array sizes, or intermediate values used to calculate indices.
<snip>
> So essentially the solution to the integer / overflow problem 
> is to have a type that can index any array, and that traps on
> overflow conditions, because overflow has to represent either a 
> coding bug, an attack, or a dataset too large for the program to 
> handle.

It's not clear if you are talking about C or about programming in
general here.  If you are making a non-C point, I would agree, but I'd
amend the remark to say that what is wanted in many programming contexts
is an integer type that either traps on overflow or does not overflow at
all (as in, say, Haskell).  And I don't think how many integers are
being used as indexes matters much -- the key is the number of integer
operations where an overflow is an error (a point you make about indexes
overflowing but it's really more general than that).  Of course you need
non-trapping types (or operations) as well, but we all agree on that.

But if you are talking about C, I think that boat has sailed.  C can
only permit and not require a trap on overflow because so much hardware
(well, Intel, mainly) does not provide hardware support for it.
Programmers use C, in part, to avoid the costs that the types used by
some higher-level languages impose.

It's possible that some future C could mandate access to an overflow
flag.  I wonder how many implementations would find that hard or costly?

> In all of those cases, you want to terminate the currently-
> executing function.

That seems a little prescriptive.

> Then you've got a few cases like hashing where you do need defined
> width types.

I think you mean types (or operations) that wrap without overflow.  The
definedness of the type's width is not really the issue, only what
happens when the range is exceeded.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.

Thread

How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 20:17 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 20:43 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-21 19:51 +0100
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 23:26 +0200
      Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-21 22:47 +0100
        Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 16:29 +0200
          Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-22 16:11 +0100
            Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-23 11:18 +0200
              Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-23 13:01 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 20:53 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 20:54 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 20:58 +0200
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> - 2015-09-21 18:15 -0400
      Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-21 15:21 -0700
      Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-21 17:51 -0500
        Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-09-21 19:15 -0400
          Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-21 23:59 -0500
          Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-22 09:22 -0700
            Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-22 10:32 -0700
            Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-09-22 18:17 +0000
              Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-22 12:25 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-09-22 22:33 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-22 15:52 -0700
            Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-09-22 23:09 +0000
              Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-23 09:07 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-09-23 16:55 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-23 10:46 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-09-23 23:18 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-09-23 22:29 -0400
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-24 11:09 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-27 18:23 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-28 05:20 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-27 23:23 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-28 09:03 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-28 01:24 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-28 09:32 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-09-28 10:22 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-28 11:35 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-28 10:33 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-28 18:59 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-28 20:09 +0200
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 13:39 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-28 20:04 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 16:43 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 18:55 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 19:31 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-28 12:16 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-28 14:31 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 16:47 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-29 11:54 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-01 00:36 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-10-02 10:53 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-02 09:48 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-03 11:27 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-03 12:32 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-03 11:26 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-04 16:46 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-28 14:23 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 16:52 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-30 01:39 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-30 12:37 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-30 21:28 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-09-30 17:54 -0400
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-01 03:59 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-01 01:42 -0400
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-30 16:20 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-04 16:39 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-28 23:23 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-29 09:35 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-10-02 11:06 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-02 09:23 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-02 12:07 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-02 10:47 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-02 17:48 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-03 16:46 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-05 10:41 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-09-28 15:31 -0400
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 16:40 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-09-28 18:17 -0400
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-30 02:49 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-30 06:27 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-29 10:43 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-28 22:51 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-30 02:11 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-28 22:48 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 22:03 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-30 01:13 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-09-30 17:06 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-30 17:26 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-30 13:04 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-28 09:12 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-28 12:28 +0200
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-28 20:44 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-01 01:39 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-01 08:55 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-01 09:02 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-01 14:55 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-01 16:48 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-10-02 11:46 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-06 00:15 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-10-06 02:43 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-06 10:13 +0200
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-10-06 19:14 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-06 21:36 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-06 09:25 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-06 09:28 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-06 13:11 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-06 13:56 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-07 00:25 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-06 09:44 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-06 10:08 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-06 12:00 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-07 01:58 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-07 10:12 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-08 00:40 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-10-03 12:29 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-03 13:20 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-10-03 12:33 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-03 17:02 -0400
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-03 15:04 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-04 05:12 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-04 12:58 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-10-03 12:37 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-03 16:21 -0400
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-03 16:05 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-03 14:02 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-24 09:39 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-09-27 16:26 +0000
        Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> - 2015-09-21 22:06 -0400
          Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-09-22 10:17 -0400
            Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> - 2015-09-22 19:48 -0400
              Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2015-09-23 13:15 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 21:25 +0200
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 21:54 +0200
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 22:02 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 21:50 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> - 2015-09-21 18:08 -0400
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 08:31 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 10:18 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 10:50 +0200
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 11:00 +0200
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 11:07 +0200
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 11:20 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 11:15 +0200
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 11:23 +0200

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