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Re: Importing from wordlists.

From mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix)
Subject Re: Importing from wordlists.
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Message-ID <69829499998432@frunobulax.edu> (permalink)
Date 2015-04-04 09:53 +0200
References <5517f359$0$23216$e4fe514c@dreader34.news.xs4all.nl>
Organization SunSITE.dk - Supporting Open source

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Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> Re: Importing from wordlists.

> "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> writes:
>> I use 32-bit Forth on 64-bit Win7 and MacOS. What is the perceived
>> advantage of going 64-bit beyond generally "keeping up with fashion"?

> 64-bit programs usually run a lot faster.

This is not true for any of the (iForth64) tests that we do. 
Recompiling a program for 64bits generally makes it somewhat 
slower, at least in Forth (in C int is 32bit always).

>                                            Wider data transfers, more
> cpu registers (depending), etc.  

Unfortunately, a 64bit CPU does not have twice the memoryspeed of a
32bit one, That's perfectly logical given the hardware abstraction 
levels before you get at the raw bits. In fact one could hypothesize that
a 64bit CPU in 32bit mode accesses memory much faster than in 64bit
mode (at least with the same Forth program).

More CPU registers is only true at the programmer level because of register
renaming. It just makes it easier to write a program, it will not be faster
(again, unless it really needs 64bit data).

There is a problem with new floating-point hardware though: in 32bit mode
it is not possible to load wide registers fast enough (some C compilers 
load fp registers from the GP set), and I doubt that much hardware 
development effort is going in the direction of fixing this.

>                                  Plus the much larger address space,
> which some memory hungry programs actually use.

Ah, here we have it. One thing is for sure: programs will NOT become less
memory hungry. Standard PC's and even phones already now have far more 
memory, let alone diskspace, than can be addressed by 32 bits. 

Therefore it is not dificult to predict that any new exciting programs 
(we want to write these in Forth, surely) will be 64bit. Once that 
happens, it will become more difficult to find 32 bit-compatible DLLs, 
and users will complain about their compiler only witing 32bit DLLs. 

I predict that Apple will soon come out with a 64bit-only platform, 
and o boy, how old everybody else will look :-)

Seriously, the longer the Forth vendors wait with a 64-bit release the 
more difficult the inevitable port will be. It takes a few years to get
all the bugs and gotcha's out. iForth is 64bit for many years already
and we are now at the near 0 bugs level. We dropped 32bits support 
officially for the next release (too much support and test headaches).

-marcel

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Importing from wordlists. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-29 12:43 +0000
  Importing from wordlists. Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-03-29 06:15 -0700
    Re: Importing from wordlists. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-29 15:11 +0000
    Re: Importing from wordlists. hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-29 09:14 -0700
      Re: Importing from wordlists. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-29 19:52 +0000
        Re: Importing from wordlists. anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-03-30 12:39 +0000
          Re: Importing from wordlists. Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-03-30 09:09 -0700
            Re: Importing from wordlists. stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-03-30 16:42 +0000
            Re: Importing from wordlists. hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-30 17:55 -0700
              Re: Importing from wordlists. Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-04-02 05:41 -0700
          Re: Importing from wordlists. "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-03-31 13:26 +1000
            Re: Importing from wordlists. hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-30 19:54 -0700
              Re: Importing from wordlists. Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-03-31 02:23 -0700
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-03-31 12:02 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-03-31 07:41 -0700
                Re: Importing from wordlists. "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-03-31 16:36 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-31 16:52 +0000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-03-31 18:33 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-03-31 15:25 -0700
                Re: Importing from wordlists. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-01 00:59 +0000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-04-01 08:05 -0700
                Re: Importing from wordlists. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-01 15:25 +0000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-01 15:58 +0000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-01 15:57 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-03-31 23:58 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-01 02:00 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-31 18:48 -0700
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-04-01 08:03 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-01 16:38 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-01 15:54 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-01 17:41 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-01 18:24 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-02 05:27 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-04-02 12:38 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-02 15:45 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-02 17:25 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-03 02:00 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-04-03 20:49 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-04-03 11:08 -1000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-03 14:14 -0700
                Re: Importing from wordlists. franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-04-04 02:47 -0700
                Re: Importing from wordlists. anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-03 21:37 +0000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-04-03 14:05 -1000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-04 05:14 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-04 14:07 +0000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-04 14:02 -0700
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-04-05 00:36 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Hans-Peter Diettrich <DrDiettrich1@aol.com> - 2015-04-04 04:35 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-04 13:30 +0000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-04 16:38 +0000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Hans-Peter Diettrich <DrDiettrich1@aol.com> - 2015-04-04 16:48 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-03 23:49 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-04-03 14:09 -1000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-04 20:30 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-04 13:29 -0700
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Johan Kotlinski <kotlinski@gmail.com> - 2015-04-03 23:57 -0700
                Re: Importing from wordlists. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-04-03 21:35 -1000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-04 10:00 -0700
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-04-04 19:08 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-04-02 22:45 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-03 02:08 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-04-02 20:59 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-03 02:03 +0200
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-04-03 20:52 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-04-09 12:39 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-01 15:03 +0000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-01 01:10 +0000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-04-01 07:32 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-01 07:52 +0000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-01 10:39 +0000
                SYNONYM (wase: Importing from wordlists.) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-01 11:29 +0000
                Re: SYNONYM (wase: Importing from wordlists.) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-01 15:08 +0000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-01 15:49 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-01 17:12 +0000
                Re: Importing from wordlists. "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-01 18:45 +0100
                Re: Importing from wordlists. Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-04-01 20:43 +0100
  Re: Importing from wordlists. mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2015-04-04 09:53 +0200
    Re: Importing from wordlists. anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-04 14:20 +0000
      Re: Importing from wordlists. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-04 17:10 +0000
        Re: Importing from wordlists. mhx@iae.nl - 2015-04-04 11:25 -0700

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