Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #164341

Re: CS instead of math?

From	usenet@only.tnx (Questor)
Newsgroups	alt.folklore.computers
Subject	Re: CS instead of math?
Organization	ask the NSA
Message-ID	<575073c4.11440310@nntp2.rawbw.com> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <MPG.31b0a4899928a0e098a1d7@news.eternal-september.org> <5748866a.9280975@nntp2.rawbw.com> <MPG.31b29843795fb7bc98a1dc@news.eternal-september.org> <574dc979.9648864@nntp2.rawbw.com> <MPG.31b7ff684ce4a3c498a1ee@news.eternal-september.org>
Date	2016-06-02 17:58 +0000

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On Tue, 31 May 2016 21:07:38 -0400, "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com>
wrote:
>In article <574dc979.9648864@nntp2.rawbw.com>, usenet@only.tnx says...
>> 
>> On Fri, 27 May 2016 18:46:13 -0400, "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >In article <5748866a.9280975@nntp2.rawbw.com>, usenet@only.tnx says...
>> >> 
>> >> On Thu, 26 May 2016 07:14:06 -0400, "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> You apparently have failed to grasp that pure mathematics, much like pure
>> >> research, is engaged in for its own sake.
>> >
>> >I have quite grasped that.  I do not understand why you think it is 
>> >relevant.
>> 
>> You seem irked by mathematicians who, quelle surprise, want to act like
>> mathematicians and do mathematics.
>
>I don't give a crap what mathematicians do when they are not being paid 
>to teach future physicists and engineers.  But when they are being paid 
>to teach future physicists and engineers, they should bloody well be 
>teaching them what they need to know instead of a bunch of stuff that is 
>interesting to mathematicians but irrelevant to those students.

Mathematics professors are supposed to teach mathematics, which includes
mathematical theory.  Engineering professors are supposed to teach engineering,
which includes proper use of whatever mathematical methods are applicable to
their specific situations.

Perhaps you should provide some specific examples of mathematics courses,
some topics that were taught in them, and what you think should have been taught
instead.

Your position ties back into my original post.  The students want to substitute
CS instruction for math, in large part because they view it as more useful.
Instead of a general education, they want vocational training.  You seem to
think that colleges and universities should also essentially be vocational
schools.



>> >All are worthwhile endeavors but none of them put the probe on Jupiter or
>> >implement the Dividend Schedule.
>> 
>> It is beyond me why you would pursue a course of study for which you apparently
>> have little appreciation, when you would rather send probes to Uranus or perform
>> rote arithmetic.
>
>Mostly because I had some free time in the schedule and no physics or 
>engineering electives that fit.
>
>As for performing rote arithmetic, if you think that plotting 
>interplanetary trajectories is "rote arithmetic" I suggest you try it.

Calculating a dividend schedule is rote arithmetic.  


>> I would not judge either of those activities to be more 
>> worthwhile or laudable than trying to prove Goldbach's Conjecture.
>
>You insist on making value judgments.  The point is not that any of 
>these activities is "more laudable", it is that somebody paid to do one 
>of them needs to have the skills relevant to doing that job, not to 
>doing some other job.  And by refusing to teach them how to solve 
>problems, mathematicians deprive them of the skills needed to do any 
>jobs but mathematics.

More specifics on what problems for which you think mathematicians are refusing
to teach solutions...


>But maybe we should just abolish any math-department requirement for 
>scientists and engineers and instead have the relevant math taught by 
>other scientists and engineers, since mathematicians have more important 
>things to do.

Apparently you want mathematicians to teach science and engineering in addition
to mathematics.

Thread

CS instead of math? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-05-21 00:57 +0000
  Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-20 22:13 -0400
    Re: CS instead of math? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-21 11:39 +0000
  Re: CS instead of math? bert <bert.hutchings@btinternet.com> - 2016-05-21 13:23 -0700
    Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 22:36 -0400
      Re: CS instead of math? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-24 18:00 +0000
        Re: CS instead of math? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-24 20:27 +0200
        Re: CS instead of math? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-05-25 06:56 +0100
          Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-25 07:42 +0100
            Re: CS instead of math? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-25 09:39 +0200
              Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-25 09:37 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-05-25 13:05 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 07:07 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Morten Reistad <first@Last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-26 13:34 +0200
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-26 14:02 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 19:46 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-05-26 19:17 -0500
                Re: CS instead of math? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-27 06:56 -0400
              Re: CS instead of math? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 07:26 -0500
                Re: CS instead of math? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-25 14:40 +0200
              Re: CS instead of math? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-05-25 16:19 -0300
                Re: CS instead of math? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-25 16:15 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-25 22:29 +0200
                Re: CS instead of math? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-25 21:19 +0000
              Re: CS instead of math? sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-26 16:34 -0400
          Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 07:04 -0400
            Re: CS instead of math? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-26 13:28 +0200
              Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-26 14:06 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-26 18:57 +0200
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-26 18:19 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-26 18:35 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? cb@elaine.df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) - 2016-05-26 22:05 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-27 15:33 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-05-27 15:40 -0300
            Re: CS instead of math? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-26 14:43 +0000
              Re: CS instead of math? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 11:03 -0500
                Re: CS instead of math? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-26 16:27 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-26 17:52 +0100
              Re: CS instead of math? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-26 16:22 -0400
            Re: CS instead of math? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-05-31 17:27 +0000
              Re: CS instead of math? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-31 20:06 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 21:08 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-01 07:17 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 05:31 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-01 11:56 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-06-01 16:00 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-01 17:15 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-01 19:28 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-01 17:42 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-01 13:03 -0700
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 17:05 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-01 12:48 -0700
                Re: CS instead of math? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-01 17:34 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-02 07:50 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-02 10:37 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-02 12:33 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-02 12:08 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-02 08:17 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Andy Burns <feb2017-usenet@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-06-02 09:49 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-02 12:09 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-02 12:09 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Andy Burns <feb2017-usenet@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-06-02 14:09 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Andy Burns <feb2017-usenet@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-06-02 14:12 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-02 19:44 -0700
                Re: CS instead of math? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-02 15:02 +0200
                Re: CS instead of math? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-02 16:44 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-02 16:43 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-02 16:42 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-02 16:41 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-02 22:18 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-01 17:42 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-01 22:03 +0200
                Re: CS instead of math? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-01 12:47 -0700
              Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 20:58 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-01 07:29 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-01 11:59 +0200
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 06:48 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-01 12:41 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 17:04 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-02 07:59 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-06-02 08:18 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 19:53 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-01 12:15 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-01 17:42 +0000
              Re: CS instead of math? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-01 13:51 +0000
    Re: CS instead of math? "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-05-22 11:27 +0100
      Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 07:21 -0400
        Re: CS instead of math? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-22 13:15 +0000
          Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 09:53 -0400
        Re: CS instead of math? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-05-25 07:18 +0000
          Re: CS instead of math? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-25 09:42 +0200
            Re: CS instead of math? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-05-25 13:11 +0000
              Re: CS instead of math? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-25 16:15 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-25 22:31 +0200
                Re: CS instead of math? Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-26 11:23 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-26 11:37 +0100
              Re: CS instead of math? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-05-26 17:56 +0000
            Re: CS instead of math? sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-05-26 16:36 -0400
              Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 19:51 -0400
          Re: CS instead of math? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-25 07:43 -0500
            Re: CS instead of math? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-05-26 17:55 +0000
          Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 07:14 -0400
            Re: CS instead of math? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-05-27 17:40 +0000
              Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-27 18:46 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-05-31 17:28 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-31 16:09 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 21:07 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-01 08:58 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 05:48 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-01 12:06 +0200
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 06:46 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-06-03 16:05 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 20:49 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2016-06-04 22:29 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-01 12:27 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 17:07 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-02 08:12 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 19:56 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-03 09:17 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-01 13:20 -0700
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 17:10 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-02 17:58 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 13:57 -0500
                Re: CS instead of math? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-06-02 17:43 -0300
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 20:08 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-02 17:58 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 20:05 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-06-03 10:38 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-06-03 11:41 +0100
                Re: CS instead of math? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-03 13:16 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-09 05:49 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-09 19:58 -0400
                Re: CS instead of math? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-06-17 03:35 +0000
                Re: CS instead of math? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-02 19:47 -0700

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