Re: Fresh packaging ideas

From	<news@iank.org.uk>
Subject	Re: Fresh packaging ideas
Newsgroups	comp.sys.acorn.apps
Date	2012-01-28 12:19 +0000
Message-ID	<525a5761bdnews@iank.org.uk> (permalink)
References	<fUj*KgmXt@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Organization	Omega

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Hello All
Back in 2004 I started work on creating a package manager myself. For
various reasons this project ground to a halt after a few months, things
moved on and I never finished it. I thought now might be a good time to
summarise my plans here. I do still have the Basic code and may be
persuaded to do bring it out of moth balls and continue with it if people
feel this would be of use.

I wanted to create a package manager that would encourage use by making it
as easy to use as possible and fit in with the general ethos and style of
RISC OS. Very little in the way of lists are kept on the machine and
update checks are at the discretion of the individual application although
an OS !Boot update check would be a viable addition as I see it. It can
also easily be split up into smaller projects for easier maintenance. Also
be easily added to for general or specific tasks.
I have tidied up some of my initial notes a bit and included below:-

Downloading
Each piece of software would be accompanied by the repository datafile
containing details of the name, physical location of the software on the
internet, description, version information. When software is updated an
updated repository data file would be uploaded to the repository website.
This would allow the software to be either downloaded via the repository
or direct from the developers website.

Repository website
This will provide a list of all software registered to it containing name
description version etc derived from the repository datafile's. People can
select programmes for download as with a normal website. The website would
also contain a catalogue file to be used with dedicated Installation
Download software and a directory or directories containing copies of all
the repository datafiles for dependency reference.

Installation Downloader
Could provide downloading using a Linux style interface or just be a
facility for downloading an Internet package and it's dependencies to
cover for the possibility of there not being one installed. This reads the
catalogue file from the repository to compile a list of applications
available and where to download them from.

Installer core
This reads the installation file which is contained inside an Application
or with a file. It can be triggered by the Installation Downloader by a
modified zip file application, by the application it is contained with in
or just double clicking on it. The core also generates a simple to
configure wimp structure to guide the user through the process which can
be used by addition functions as well as the installer core.
When an in installation file is double clicked on, run from a zip or the
Installation downloader it will run the Installation file checking if
dependencies are available or not. If they are not available It will read
the repository data file from the Repository website then go and fetch it.
If the installer is called from the application using 'Install' it will
first check if the app is not being run from a zip file. If it is being
run from a zip
file it will go through the normal install procedure. Otherwise it will
first check with the repository website that a later version is not
available if it is it will prompt the user to decide if they want to
update it. If not it will go through it's dependencies to check if there
are updates available for them then quit.

Installation file
This is a file based on the Obey file format. You can also use anything
you would in an Obey file in it. It also includes the facility to send
substantial amounts of data to the installer eg Copyright statement,
Application name, versions of the OS that it can be used with, using a
modification of the 'Set' command.
It can also easily have commands added to it using standard Library files,
ether by putting the library in the application or in a dedicated library
directory in !Boot. A range of commands will also be available for
installing and removing files, asking questions to the user etc. It will
also support full Basic style multi line IF THEN ELSE commands. 
It will also include details of when it can and cannot be deleted.

Application install
This should be flexible and foolproof as possible. No control should be
placed on where or how many copies of an application can be installed. It
is the responsibility of each application to trigger it's own updates.
This does mean apps that aren't used aren't updated.
The installation check can be called when the Application is Run, Quit,
delayed to when the machine shuts down or whenever an Application wants.
This can be done using the 'Install' command either in the !Run file or in
the Application it's self this will then force a check (See Installer
core). 
The installation check process can also be started from the !Run file if a
dependency is not found. This will mean if a application gets moved to a
different machine or the !Boot directory gets corrupted an application
should in theory always be able to get it's self back to a working state
as it carries it's install file with it. There will need to be a small
programme included in every app that uses this to cover for the lack of in
installer being installed.

The uninstall process will largely be an automatic reversal of the install
procedure. With the exception of the dependencies that specify they should
be left. There is no way that I can see for checking to see if
dependencies are needed, as you can never be certain if a programme that
doesn't use the installer is using them.

Module/Library install 
These functions will be covered by separate 'Library' functions along the
same lines using the same install file layout but their install files are
in a dedicated directory in there section of the !boot.


Regards
Ian K

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Fresh packaging ideas Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-15 17:02 +0000
  Re: Fresh packaging ideas Jim Nagel <jimnewsm10d@abbeypress.co.uk> - 2012-01-16 11:39 +0000
  Re: Fresh packaging ideas wpb <w.blatchley@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-16 05:49 -0800
    Re: Fresh packaging ideas Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2012-01-16 19:01 +0000
    Re: Fresh packaging ideas Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-01-17 13:04 +0000
      Re: Fresh packaging ideas wpb <w.blatchley@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-17 23:01 -0800
        Re: Fresh packaging ideas Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-01-18 15:16 +0000
    Re: Fresh packaging ideas Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-17 22:32 +0000
      Re: Fresh packaging ideas Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-18 07:37 +0000
  Re: Fresh packaging ideas News Poster <workstuff@mail.com> - 2012-01-16 11:46 -0800
  Re: Fresh packaging ideas Alan <alan_baa@hotmail.com> - 2012-01-16 14:39 -0800
    Re: Fresh packaging ideas Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-17 22:23 +0000
      Re: Fresh packaging ideas Alan <alan_baa@hotmail.com> - 2012-01-18 05:04 -0800
        Re: Fresh packaging ideas Martin Bazley <martin.bazley@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-01-18 21:33 +0000
          Re: Fresh packaging ideas "David Holden" <SpamBin@apdl.co.uk> - 2012-01-19 08:03 +0000
            Re: Fresh packaging ideas Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-19 11:46 +0000
            Re: Fresh packaging ideas Alan <alan_baa@hotmail.com> - 2012-01-19 05:45 -0800
              Re: Fresh packaging ideas News poster <news@mistymornings.net> - 2012-01-19 19:35 +0100
          Re: Fresh packaging ideas Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-19 08:09 +0000
            Re: Fresh packaging ideas Martin Bazley <martin.bazley@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-01-19 19:36 +0000
              Re: Fresh packaging ideas Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-19 20:27 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Martin Bazley <martin.bazley@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-01-19 21:18 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-19 23:01 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Martin Bazley <martin.bazley@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-01-20 20:22 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-20 09:02 +0100
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-20 09:04 +0100
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Jess Hampshire <jesshampshire@googlemail.com> - 2012-01-23 19:43 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas wpb <w.blatchley@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-23 21:30 -0800
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-25 16:18 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-25 18:15 +0100
              Re: Fresh packaging ideas Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-19 21:55 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-19 23:02 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Martin Bazley <martin.bazley@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-01-20 19:48 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-20 20:44 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-20 21:10 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Martin Bazley <martin.bazley@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-01-21 00:51 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-21 04:39 +0100
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-21 15:34 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-21 04:32 +0100
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-21 04:44 +0100
          Re: Fresh packaging ideas Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-19 13:53 +0000
            Re: Fresh packaging ideas Martin Bazley <martin.bazley@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-01-19 20:56 +0000
              Re: Fresh packaging ideas Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-01-20 13:32 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Patric@invalid.com - 2012-01-20 16:16 +0100
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2012-01-21 09:55 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Fred Bambrough <fred@[127.0.0.1]> - 2012-01-21 11:00 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-21 19:04 +0100
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-01-21 19:09 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Ron Briscoe <ron.briscoe@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-01-21 20:18 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Patric@invalid.com - 2012-01-21 23:21 +0100
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-01-21 23:28 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-21 04:18 +0100
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Alan <alan_baa@hotmail.com> - 2012-01-22 07:51 -0800
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Frank de Bruijn <zuiderduin@hotmail.com> - 2012-01-23 08:13 +0100
              Re: Fresh packaging ideas Alan <alan_baa@hotmail.com> - 2012-01-23 05:06 -0800
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Martin Bazley <martin.bazley@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-01-23 21:32 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Alan <alan_baa@hotmail.com> - 2012-01-24 05:05 -0800
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-25 22:41 +0000
                Re: Fresh packaging ideas Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-26 15:33 +0100
  Re: Fresh packaging ideas Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-17 06:39 +0100
    Re: Fresh packaging ideas druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2012-01-17 23:10 +0000
      Re: Fresh packaging ideas Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-18 09:26 +0100
    Re: Fresh packaging ideas Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-17 23:10 +0000
  Re: Fresh packaging ideas Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-01-17 15:20 +0000
    Re: Fresh packaging ideas Gavin Wraith <gavin@wra1th.plus.com> - 2012-01-17 16:33 +0000
      Re: Fresh packaging ideas Chris Johnson <chrisjohnson+news@spamcop.net> - 2012-01-17 17:02 +0000
        Re: Fresh packaging ideas Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2012-01-21 15:12 +0000
  Re: Fresh packaging ideas  <news@iank.org.uk> - 2012-01-28 12:19 +0000

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