Groups > comp.lang.forth > #19399

Re: Offline compilation of Forth

From	stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Offline compilation of Forth
Message-ID	<510ea1a2.788345077@192.168.0.50> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <keeuek$jrc$1@speranza.aioe.org> <_7-dnT_tDeB0npbMnZ2dnUVZ_qKdnZ2d@supernews.com> <kekahn$5cr$1@speranza.aioe.org> <510e5448.768542997@192.168.0.50> <7xk3qpe81h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Date	2013-02-03 17:54 +0000

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On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 07:22:50 -0800, Paul Rubin
<no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) writes:
>> I certainly do worry about memory usage in embedded systems, but
>> there I worry about RAM usage, not about code size.
>
>When I think of cross-compilation, one target that immediately comes
>to mind is the smaller of the two TI MSP430 Launchpad processors, with
>2k of program flash and 128 bytes of ram.  That certainly seems
>reasonable to cross-compile for, but awfully constrained for a resident
>interpreter.

There's a reason why the Forth vendors developed Umbilical Forths.

ANd your point is? I have never claimed that one should fit a resident
interpreter on such a CPU. These days, one should use a CPU on which
one can fit a resident interpreter. Add there are such devices with
power consumption similar to or better than low-end MSP430s.

>Even the bigger cpu (16k flash, 512 bytes ram) leads
>to a rather stripped down interpreter (4e4th tries to fit in 8k of
>the flash to leave the other 8k for user code).

So use a bigger CPU?

One problem with the discussion about resident Forths on Launchpads
is that it's the usual fatuous assumption that cheaper is better.
The underfunded education world has a reason to need cheap, but 
a far better long-term solution is to fund education properly.

Stephen

-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

Thread

Offline compilation of Forth Lauri Alanko <la@iki.fi> - 2013-01-28 11:54 +0000
  Re: Offline compilation of Forth stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-01-28 17:19 +0000
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-28 22:08 +0100
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Peter Knaggs" <pjk@bcs.org.uk> - 2013-02-03 10:50 +0000
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-02-03 12:11 +0000
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-02-03 14:59 +0100
          Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-03 15:14 +0100
            Re: Offline compilation of Forth Hannu Vuolasaho <hannu.vuolasaho@nospam.tut.fi.invalid> - 2013-02-03 15:25 +0000
          Re: Offline compilation of Forth Gary Bergstrom <g.bergstrom@ieee.org> - 2013-02-05 08:13 -0800
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-02-04 16:23 +0000
  Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-28 12:26 -1000
  Re: Offline compilation of Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-01-29 08:55 +0000
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-29 17:49 +0100
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-30 00:42 -0800
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-01-30 11:58 +0000
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-30 23:16 -0800
          Re: Offline compilation of Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-01-31 13:29 +0000
            Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-03 12:49 +1100
              Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2013-02-14 20:37 -0800
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-02-03 21:15 +0200
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-04 02:04 +0100
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-02-04 13:22 +0000
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-04 20:07 +0100
          Re: Offline compilation of Forth mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-02-04 23:07 +0200
            Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-05 18:33 +0100
              Re: Offline compilation of Forth mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-02-06 22:53 +0200
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-07 00:30 +0100
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-30 00:36 -0800
  Re: Offline compilation of Forth Lauri Alanko <la@iki.fi> - 2013-01-30 18:12 +0000
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-30 09:36 -1000
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-31 07:45 +0100
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-31 03:37 -0600
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth Lauri Alanko <la@iki.fi> - 2013-02-01 00:01 +0000
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-31 14:59 -1000
          Re: Offline compilation of Forth Lauri Alanko <la@iki.fi> - 2013-02-05 15:17 +0000
            Re: Offline compilation of Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-05 10:46 -0600
              Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-05 18:47 +0100
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-01-31 21:47 +1100
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-31 06:12 -0600
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-01-31 13:32 +0000
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-31 08:27 -1000
          Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-01 10:23 +1100
            Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-31 13:53 -1000
              Re: Offline compilation of Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-02-01 03:17 +0000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-31 18:43 -1000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-01 08:45 -0800
              Re: Offline compilation of Forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-31 23:05 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-31 21:25 -1000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-01 08:55 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-02-01 09:18 -1000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-02-01 13:04 -0800
              Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-03 11:20 +1100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-02-03 12:20 +0000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-03 07:22 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-02-03 17:54 +0000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-03 10:17 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-02-03 19:33 +0000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-03 11:53 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-02-04 00:59 +0100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2013-02-04 11:38 +0100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-02-06 09:13 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2013-02-14 21:02 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2013-02-14 20:55 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-02-03 08:26 -1000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-05 13:04 +1100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-02-05 10:33 +0000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-02-05 08:56 -1000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-08 02:07 +1100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2013-02-07 19:03 +0100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-09 22:45 +1100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2013-02-09 18:56 +0100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2013-02-11 00:19 +0100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-02-09 11:59 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-13 13:13 +1100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-02-12 19:19 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2013-02-14 21:01 -0800
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2013-02-03 16:26 -0500
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-05 15:32 +1100
          Re: Offline compilation of Forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-02-04 23:18 -0800

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