Groups > comp.lang.forth > #19440

Re: Offline compilation of Forth

From	"Ed" <invalid@nospam.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Offline compilation of Forth
Date	2013-02-05 13:04 +1100
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<keppbs$pdd$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <ooydnRmabYDkKpfMnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@supernews.com> <keeuek$jrc$1@speranza.aioe.org> <_7-dnT_tDeB0npbMnZ2dnUVZ_qKdnZ2d@supernews.com> <kekahn$5cr$1@speranza.aioe.org> <510e5448.768542997@192.168.0.50>

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Stephen Pelc wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Feb 2013 11:20:36 +1100, "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >I would say the option to generate compilerless turnkeys should be
> >available all systems - particularly the large Forth systems of today.
> >If the *only* reason they generate 400 Kb "Hello World" executables
> >(800 Kb in the case of SwiftForth) is because they're using 1970's
> >implementation methods, then perhaps it's time for a re-think.
> >Strategies for keeping the compiler separate from the code it
> >generates have been around since at least the 1980's.
>
> But why? If ultimate performance is your goal, then there is
> merit in keeping applications smaller than the size of the cache.
> Otherwise, on computers with 1Gb or more of RAM, and the largest
> desktop Forth app I know of being 22Mb plus a few DLLs, we can
> say that Forth apps occupy less than 2.5% of the available RAM.
> Why on earth should I worry about the size of the Forth kernel?
> ...

Because waste is unnecessary and never cost-free?

I download many Win apps from the net in order to find one that
works and/or is suitable.  I don't have infinite time or bandwidth.
It would be more than annoying if each of those apps included
an extra 700 Kb of code due to the unnecessary presence of
a compiler.  The same would apply if I were a Forth customer
wanting to distribute small or medium sized apps on the internet.

One of the standard tests applied to compilers was the size
of the executables it produced.  Chuck claimed Forth was small.
In that case it should be at the top of the list.  How hard can
it be.

Thread

Offline compilation of Forth Lauri Alanko <la@iki.fi> - 2013-01-28 11:54 +0000
  Re: Offline compilation of Forth stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-01-28 17:19 +0000
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-28 22:08 +0100
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Peter Knaggs" <pjk@bcs.org.uk> - 2013-02-03 10:50 +0000
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-02-03 12:11 +0000
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-02-03 14:59 +0100
          Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-03 15:14 +0100
            Re: Offline compilation of Forth Hannu Vuolasaho <hannu.vuolasaho@nospam.tut.fi.invalid> - 2013-02-03 15:25 +0000
          Re: Offline compilation of Forth Gary Bergstrom <g.bergstrom@ieee.org> - 2013-02-05 08:13 -0800
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-02-04 16:23 +0000
  Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-28 12:26 -1000
  Re: Offline compilation of Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-01-29 08:55 +0000
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-29 17:49 +0100
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-30 00:42 -0800
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-01-30 11:58 +0000
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-30 23:16 -0800
          Re: Offline compilation of Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-01-31 13:29 +0000
            Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-03 12:49 +1100
              Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2013-02-14 20:37 -0800
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-02-03 21:15 +0200
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-04 02:04 +0100
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-02-04 13:22 +0000
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-04 20:07 +0100
          Re: Offline compilation of Forth mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-02-04 23:07 +0200
            Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-05 18:33 +0100
              Re: Offline compilation of Forth mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-02-06 22:53 +0200
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-07 00:30 +0100
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-30 00:36 -0800
  Re: Offline compilation of Forth Lauri Alanko <la@iki.fi> - 2013-01-30 18:12 +0000
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-30 09:36 -1000
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-31 07:45 +0100
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-31 03:37 -0600
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth Lauri Alanko <la@iki.fi> - 2013-02-01 00:01 +0000
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-31 14:59 -1000
          Re: Offline compilation of Forth Lauri Alanko <la@iki.fi> - 2013-02-05 15:17 +0000
            Re: Offline compilation of Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-05 10:46 -0600
              Re: Offline compilation of Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-05 18:47 +0100
    Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-01-31 21:47 +1100
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-31 06:12 -0600
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-01-31 13:32 +0000
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-31 08:27 -1000
          Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-01 10:23 +1100
            Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-31 13:53 -1000
              Re: Offline compilation of Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-02-01 03:17 +0000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-31 18:43 -1000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-01 08:45 -0800
              Re: Offline compilation of Forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-31 23:05 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-31 21:25 -1000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-01 08:55 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-02-01 09:18 -1000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-02-01 13:04 -0800
              Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-03 11:20 +1100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-02-03 12:20 +0000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-03 07:22 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-02-03 17:54 +0000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-03 10:17 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-02-03 19:33 +0000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-03 11:53 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-02-04 00:59 +0100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2013-02-04 11:38 +0100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-02-06 09:13 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2013-02-14 21:02 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2013-02-14 20:55 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-02-03 08:26 -1000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-05 13:04 +1100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-02-05 10:33 +0000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-02-05 08:56 -1000
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-08 02:07 +1100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2013-02-07 19:03 +0100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-09 22:45 +1100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2013-02-09 18:56 +0100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2013-02-11 00:19 +0100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-02-09 11:59 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-13 13:13 +1100
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-02-12 19:19 -0800
                Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2013-02-14 21:01 -0800
      Re: Offline compilation of Forth Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2013-02-03 16:26 -0500
        Re: Offline compilation of Forth "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-02-05 15:32 +1100
          Re: Offline compilation of Forth Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-02-04 23:18 -0800

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