Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development

From	James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development
Date	2011-12-12 17:24 -0500
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<4EE67F39.4090602@verizon.net> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <ef80b479-2bc5-4221-9045-10acb6a07070@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> <jc0v5h$5ae$1@speranza.aioe.org> <f27dbf33-98b7-41d2-abb6-b14afe734757@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> <4EE662BE.3030701@verizon.net> <750840bb-25a6-412a-adce-b232dd0b263a@j9g2000vby.googlegroups.com>

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On 12/12/2011 05:00 PM, James Harris wrote:
> On Dec 12, 8:23 pm, James Kuyper <jameskuy...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On 12/12/2011 02:46 PM, James Harris wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> possible. It should not compile for a certain target OS but merely
>>> produce simple, lean, unencumbered, OS-agnostic object code,
>>
>> I'm a little confused by the implications of that last requirement. It
>> seems to me that there's generally no reason for a compiler to produce
>> object code that is anything other than OS-agnostic, except when making
>> use of OS facilities, in which case OS-agnostic code is impossible.
>> Could you please give a detailed real-world example of a compiler that
>> generates object code which is unnecessarily OS-dependent?
>>
>> By "detailed", I mean the following: please provide a simple piece of
>> portable C source code. Identify the specific compiler you're talking
>> about, and specify the command line options used to invoke it. Provide a
>> listing of the generated object code, and identify the specific ways in
>> which the generated object code is unnecessarily OS-dependent. To make
>> it clearer what you're looking for, please also provide corresponding
>> object code that would meet your specification.
> 
> I got an answer to my original question a while ago. I'm happy to
> respond to questions or challenges but can't quite summon up the
> motivation to do what you ask for. Thanks, if you were trying to help,
> though.

No, I wasn't trying to help; I was trying to figure out what you were
talking about. What you appear to be saying is incompatible with my
mental model of how compilers and operating systems interact. Either I'm
misunderstanding you, or my model is incorrect, or what you're saying
doesn't make sense; I'm not sure which, and I wanted to find out.

If what you're saying doesn't make sense, then proving that fact to your
satisfaction would be helpful to you. However, if either of the other
two options apply, you won't derive any benefit from resolving the issue
for me, and I can't claim that you have any duty to do so.

Though my career has been in scientific computing, my formal education
was in advanced theoretical physics, not computer science. I've learned
a lot about how compilers work in the course of my career, but I've
never even taken the kind of course, which I gather is standard for Comp
Sci students, in which you actually write a simple compiler.

I only have a limited range of actual experience with operating systems.
The vast majority of my computer programming has been on variety of
Unix-like operating systems - mostly, and most recently, several
different distributions of Linux. Most of the rest of my experience was
a long time ago on MS-DOS machines, plus one summer I spent writing code
for a VMS system.

Therefore, it's entirely possible that my model of compiler/OS
interactions is incorrect, or at least incomplete.

Thread

Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-11-12 01:22 -0800
  Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-12 10:36 +0100
    Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-11-12 02:09 -0800
      Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-12 11:37 +0100
        Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-11-12 08:02 -0800
          Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-13 10:24 +1100
          Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-13 10:29 +0100
        Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-12 15:06 -0700
    Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development "ankh" <star67@venus.gov> - 2011-11-12 22:43 -0600
      Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-14 21:57 +0100
        Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-15 10:16 +1300
        Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development "Jo" <none@none.none> - 2011-11-19 22:59 -0600
          Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-11-20 12:58 +0000
            Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201111.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-11-21 07:30 +0100
              Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development "Jo" <none@none.none> - 2011-11-21 01:01 -0600
            Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development "Jo" <none@none.none> - 2011-11-21 00:51 -0600
            Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Brian <nospam@nospam.com> - 2011-11-22 16:47 +0000
              Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-22 12:10 -0500
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-22 20:24 +0100
              Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Richard Sanders <lnr729@gmail.com> - 2011-11-22 10:58 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-24 00:27 -0800
              Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-22 20:13 +0100
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-23 23:13 +0100
              Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Friedrich Dominicus <just-for-news-frido@q-software-solutions.de> - 2011-11-23 06:28 +0100
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-23 02:45 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-11-23 10:57 +0000
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-24 01:31 -0800
              Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-11-23 10:58 +0000
              Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-24 00:26 -0800
    Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-14 01:33 -0800
      Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-14 17:13 +0000
        Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Joe Wright <joewwright@comcast.net> - 2011-11-14 14:36 -0500
        Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-15 00:56 -0800
  Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-11-13 02:59 +0000
    Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Joe Wright <joewwright@comcast.net> - 2011-11-12 22:13 -0500
      Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development "ankh" <star67@venus.gov> - 2011-11-13 00:03 -0600
      Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-14 21:55 +0100
        Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-15 00:56 -0800
        Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-11-15 07:05 -0800
          Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-15 14:42 -0800
            Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-16 00:17 +0100
            Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-11-15 17:50 -0800
    Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-12 20:38 -0700
      Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-11-13 00:00 -0800
        Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-13 01:23 -0700
        Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-13 09:10 +0000
          Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-13 10:33 +0100
            Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-13 23:03 +1300
              Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-13 11:17 +0100
          Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-10 11:29 -0800
            Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-11 09:57 +1300
              Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-10 14:26 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-11 11:38 +1300
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-10 16:01 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-11 13:18 +1300
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-12-10 22:50 -0600
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-12 11:25 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-12-11 03:45 +0000
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-12 12:06 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-12-12 20:02 +0000
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development John Tsiombikas <nuclear@member.fsf.org> - 2011-12-13 06:28 +0000
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-12-13 00:32 -0600
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-12-13 10:57 +0100
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-12-10 23:20 +0000
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-12 12:38 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-12-12 20:15 +0000
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-12 13:51 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-12-12 22:32 +0000
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development John Tsiombikas <nuclear@member.fsf.org> - 2011-12-13 06:40 +0000
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-12-13 09:19 +0000
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-17 00:52 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-14 13:00 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-12-14 21:53 +0000
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-15 11:18 +1300
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-15 11:16 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-12-15 19:35 +0000
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-15 13:03 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-12-16 03:55 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-12-16 19:50 +0000
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-12-12 16:54 -0600
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-13 12:03 +1300
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-12-12 17:19 -0600
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-15 11:52 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-12-12 18:34 -0500
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-12-13 09:43 +0100
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-15 11:33 -0800
            Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-12-10 21:13 +0000
              Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-10 15:10 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-12-10 23:31 +0000
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-12-11 01:57 +0100
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-12 11:46 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-12-12 15:23 -0500
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-12-12 20:02 +0000
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-12 14:00 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-12-12 17:24 -0500
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-12-12 17:06 -0600
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-12-12 18:16 -0500
            Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-12-11 09:03 -0500
              Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-11 08:57 -0800
              Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-12 12:11 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-12-12 14:25 -0800
                Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-14 13:44 -0800
  Re: Which lean C compiler for 32-bit OS development "ankh" <star67@venus.gov> - 2011-11-12 22:42 -0600

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