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Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False

Newsgroups sci.physics
Date 2016-09-11 01:42 -0700
References <451e287d-06c3-4d74-8a78-b1d333410503@googlegroups.com> <78032cd4-e5f7-4f33-904f-3a5169a0f776@googlegroups.com> <ba712ca8-770e-445e-81a8-d1046dd06035@googlegroups.com> <652a60a4-d2de-4b56-ab8f-fd7666d6727f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID <46ca4175-bdaa-4100-bf5f-256cf007f91e@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False
From Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com>

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The second law of thermodynamics is OBVIOUSLY violated by pH-sensitive polymers:

http://www.gsjournal.net/old/valev/val3.gif

http://www.google.com/patents/US5520672 
 "When the pH is lowered (that is, on raising the chemical potential, μ, of the protons present) at the isothermal condition of 37°C, these matrices can exert forces, f, sufficient to lift weights that are a thousand times their dry weight."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1367611/pdf/biophysj00645-0017.pdf 
 POLYELECTROLYTES AND THEIR BIOLOGICAL INTERACTIONS, A. KATCHALSKY, pp. 13-15: "Let the polymolecule be a negatively charged polyacid in a stretched state and have a length L. Now let us add to the molecule a mineral acid to provide hydrogen ions to combine with the ionized carboxylate groups and transform them into undissociated carboxylic groups according to the reaction RCOO- + H+ = RCOOH. By means of this reaction, the electrostatic repulsion which kept the macromolecule in a highly stretched state vanishes and instead the Brownian motion and intramolecular attraction cause a coiling up of the polymeric chains. Upon coiling, the polymolecule contracts and lifts the attached weight through a distance ΔL. On lifting the weight, mechanical work f*ΔL was performed... [...] FIGURE 4: Polyacid gel in sodium hydroxide solution: expanded. Polyacid gel in acid solution: contracted; weight is lifted."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH-sensitive_polymers 
 "pH sensitive or pH responsive polymers are materials which will respond to the changes in the pH of the surrounding medium by varying their dimensions. Such materials increase its size (swell) or collapse depending on the pH of their environment."

The following four-step isothermal reversible cycle clearly violates the second law of thermodynamics (the work gained in step 2 is greater than the work lost in step 4): 

1. The polymer is initially stretched. We add H+ to the system. The force of contraction increases. 
2. The polymers contracts and lifts a weight. 
3. We remove the same amount of H+ from the system. The force of contraction decreases. 
4. We stretch the polymer and restore the initial state of the system. 

Note that adding H+ to the system and then removing it (steps 1 and 3), if performed by a reversible concentration cell (the pH-sensitive polymer is immersed in one of the half-cells), amounts to zero work involved (the work gained in step 1 is lost in step 3):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration_cell 
 "A concentration cell is a limited form of a galvanic cell that has two equivalent half-cells of the same composition differing only in concentrations."

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Potn3UUHLkE/Uq7bTse46MI/AAAAAAAAAPM/moI8tyAOtk0/s1600/hydrogen-cell.png 

Pentcho Valev

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Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-05 00:54 -0700
  Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-06 04:20 -0700
    Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-06 23:52 -0700
      Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-09 08:35 -0700
        Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-11 01:42 -0700
          Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-09-11 08:54 -0700
          Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-17 06:07 -0700
  Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-17 10:23 -0700
    Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-17 19:43 +0200
      Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-22 07:14 -0700
        Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 17:04 +0200
          Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 17:48 +0200
        Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 21:37 +0200
          Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-22 20:55 -0700
            Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 06:59 +0200
            Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 08:59 +0200
              Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-23 08:43 -0700
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 18:06 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-23 09:17 -0700
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 11:28 -0500
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-24 08:40 -0700
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 18:09 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 18:47 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 13:30 -0500
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-24 12:49 -0700
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 15:29 -0500
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-25 07:24 -0700
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 17:54 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 16:47 -0500
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-26 06:47 -0700
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 18:16 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 18:24 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-29 09:04 -0700
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 18:57 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 19:02 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-30 07:00 -0700
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 09:05 -0500
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-30 08:26 -0700
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 18:17 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-10-02 05:48 -0700
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 08:51 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timbandtech@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 10:19 -0700
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 17:39 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 17:52 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-26 18:51 -0400
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 08:37 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 08:39 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 10:16 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 18:36 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 15:44 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-24 07:56 -0700
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 17:18 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 17:31 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-24 11:34 -0700
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 21:21 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-25 08:38 -0700
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 18:55 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 09:07 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 09:30 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False "Tim BandTech.com" <timgolden@bandtechnology.com> - 2016-09-26 04:45 -0700
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 14:53 +0200
                Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 15:52 +0200
    Re: Re: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Obviously False Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-09-19 12:38 -0400

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