Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C

Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Date	2019-10-28 11:05 -0700
References	(13 earlier) <qp408d$mco$1@dont-email.me> <87lft6rqy6.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <5a9c3f4b-1204-4d40-8d5b-438b4cfe3bf3@googlegroups.com> <87a79lsmm7.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <lKrtF.1173925$Nw3.180880@fx40.am4>
Message-ID	<44a985ee-1d94-4af9-8a38-124c57cc0a4f@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C
From	already5chosen@yahoo.com

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On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 3:44:59 AM UTC+2, Bart wrote:
> On 28/10/2019 01:08, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> > Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> >> Next lesson is other sort methods the students can devise themselves,
> >> which will usually be O(N^2) algorithms, and a discussion of the advantages
> >> and disadvantages. So you are teaching that some algorithms are better
> >> than others in different circumstances.
> > 
> > All good provided (a) bubble sort isn't taught unless it comes up as a
> > student-devised algorithm, and (b) the students understand that there
> > are no situations in which bubble sort would be the best choice.  In
> > practice the problem is that, after taking some courses, the students
> > /can't/ choose because they can't remember any other algorithm than the
> > not-really-bubble-sort that's being discussed here.
> > 
> > A key outcome should be that the students understand that insertion sort
> > is the best choice when a simple quadratic algorithm will do.  They
> > should be able to come up with this:
> > 
> >    for (int i = 1; i < n; i++)
> >      for (int j = i; j > 0 && A[j-1] > A[j]; j--)
> >        swap(&A[j-1], &A[j]);
> > 
> > as easily as the dreaded quasi bubble sort.  It's not hard -- all the
> > bounds are logical.
> 
> I've just tried the famous insertion sort; the first algorithm I saw 
> online (adapted from what I guess was 0-based to 1-based) was this:
> 
>    proc isort(a)=
>        for i:=2 to a.len do
>            value:=a[i]
>            holepos:=i
>            while holepos>1 and a[holepos-1]>value do
>                a[holepos]:=a[holepos-1]
>                --holepos
>            od
> 
>            a[holepos]:=value
>       od
>    end
> 
> This has a somewhat different inner loop than yours. It turns out to be 
> about 4 times as fast as my bubble sort for the same random data, in the 
> same language and for larger data sets.
> 
> However, if I was sorting data for which that timing was important, I'd 
> use a quick-sort routine. Or some other approach entirely if I knew the 
> data lent itself to that.
> 


Count-based sorting algorithms sort arrays of millions of random 32-bit or 64-bit integers many times faster than quicksort. It does not make quicksort useless.
The same apply to quicksort vs straight insertion sort.
Sometimes (big records, quick comparisons) the same applies to straight insertion sort vs direct selection sort.
The same *never* apply to  straight insertion sort vs bubblesort.

Ben is simply correct in everything he said. And you are simply stubborn for no reason.


> So I don't actually use bubble sort for real tasks (other than as 
> benchmarks), but if I did need something quick (quick to write) it's 
> what I would use.
> 
> Interpreted bubble-sort sorts 5000 numbers in about 1 second, while the 
> above insertion sort does it in 0.4 seconds, with the differences 
> narrowing rapidly for smaller data. But my qsort (still interpreted) can 
> sort nearly 1000000 numbers in 1 second.

Thread

Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-20 18:12 -0400
  Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@delq.com> - 2019-10-20 18:33 -0700
    Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-20 23:16 -0400
      Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-21 13:15 +0100
        Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-21 14:40 -0400
          Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-22 00:54 +0100
            Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-22 10:05 +0200
            Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-10-23 07:18 -0700
          Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2019-10-26 20:01 +0200
            Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-26 17:50 -0400
              Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-10-28 16:33 +0100
      Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@delq.com> - 2019-10-21 07:56 -0700
      Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-21 16:46 +0100
        Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-21 14:57 -0400
          Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-21 20:53 +0100
            Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-21 16:05 -0400
              Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-21 21:12 +0100
            Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-21 20:08 -0400
              Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-22 10:27 +0200
          Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-22 19:45 +0100
            Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-10-22 19:58 +0000
            Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-23 11:46 -0400
              Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-23 20:02 +0100
              Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-24 01:38 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-23 22:10 -0400
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2019-10-24 07:24 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-24 09:29 -0400
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-10-24 08:45 -0700
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-24 11:56 -0400
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-10-24 09:13 -0700
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-24 18:28 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-24 10:36 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-24 09:26 -0400
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-24 18:29 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-24 14:38 -0400
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-24 21:30 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-24 11:30 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-24 20:36 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-24 21:34 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-24 22:42 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-24 18:59 -0400
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-25 02:48 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-10-26 04:33 -0700
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-26 17:21 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-26 18:47 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-26 23:24 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-27 00:29 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-27 01:58 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-27 12:02 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-28 02:08 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-10-26 14:29 -0600
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-10-26 13:36 -0700
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-26 22:06 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-26 23:04 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-27 12:49 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-27 18:20 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-27 22:45 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-28 00:08 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-10-27 14:57 -0700
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-28 01:08 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-28 01:44 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-28 02:31 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-28 10:42 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-28 12:45 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-28 17:39 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-28 20:31 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-28 20:22 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-28 22:07 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-28 22:22 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-29 10:17 +0100
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-29 11:21 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2019-10-28 11:05 -0700
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-28 19:26 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-28 21:08 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-28 21:57 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-28 23:59 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-29 00:53 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-29 01:09 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-29 01:32 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-28 22:44 -0400
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-10-29 03:05 -0700
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-29 11:12 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2019-10-29 04:19 -0700
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-29 11:47 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-10-29 05:03 -0700
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-29 13:16 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-29 17:13 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-29 17:35 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2019-10-30 07:19 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-29 16:19 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-29 16:50 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-10-29 10:03 -0700
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-29 17:13 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2019-10-29 10:23 -0700
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-29 22:20 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2019-10-30 03:04 -0700
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-30 15:39 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-10-30 09:02 -0700
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-30 19:35 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2019-10-30 14:11 -0700
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-10-31 03:34 +0000
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-04 17:02 -0800
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2019-10-26 12:30 -0400
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-10-26 12:03 -0500
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-10-26 14:25 -0600
                Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-10-24 18:06 -0700
        Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-21 22:44 +0100
          Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-21 19:00 -0400
  Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2019-10-21 10:20 +0800
    Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-10-21 12:44 +0100
  Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2019-10-21 10:24 +0800
    Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-10-20 23:05 -0400
      Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2019-10-21 11:32 +0800
  Re: Challenge for Feeb: dealing with large numbers in C Autist <autist69@gmail.com> - 2019-10-29 15:15 +0100

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