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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #230736

Re: General Thoughts ...

From "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: General Thoughts ...
Date 2025-04-29 23:46 +0200
Message-ID <3ut7elxg19.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <vuip8c$s5lq$1@dont-email.me> <d3h1elxh8g.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <Crc*gEdbA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> <kdg7elxk22.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <Erc*J9ebA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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On 2025-04-29 22:58, Theo wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2025-04-29 16:11, Theo wrote:
>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> The past century I bought a programmable calculator from Casio, a
>>>> FX-850P. It used Basic. I lost or misplaced that calculator, so on a
>>>> whim I got myself another programmable from the same brand, a
>>>> fx-9860GIII, and this one comes with micro-python.
>>>>
>>>> I asked chatgpt about this. The text is going to distort a bit, the
>>>> original is html:
>>>
>>> I don't think there's anything surprising in this.  In the 80s, BASIC was
>>> the first language a lot of people learned in school or similar settings.
>>> Today, it's Python.  Python has similar levels of beginner-friendliness but
>>> is also more suited to the modern age (eg able to talk to the internet, a
>>> package management system, a big collection of libraries etc).
>>
>> On the other hand, I saw Basic dialects in the 90's that were quite
>> advanced. No line numbers, loop control, functions, etc. I'm thinking
>> for instance of Borland's Turbo Basic.
>>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBASIC>
> 
> Indeed, BBC BASIC had those in 1981.
> 
>> The problem might be the plethora of dialects, that impeded sharing
>> libraries.
> 
> For a lot of machines, BASIC was the only interface you had between the user
> and machine code.  So there wasn't very much developed in terms of a machine
> abstraction that meant code could migrate from one machine to another -
> unless you could do things in vanilla BASIC you had to do some machine
> specific stuff to get things down (eg PEEKs and POKEs but other mechanisms
> developed - eg ARM BBC BASIC has SYS for making syscalls).  On Unix (and
> systems that follow a similar API), a lot of the work to make it useful lives in
> libc and POSIX, which don't have a cross-platform equivalent in BASICs.
> 
> Another hindrance was BASIC's often global scope, which made code difficult
> to be self contained (you couldn't know if a variable in a library was also
> used in the caller, and if they clashed nothing would tell you).  BBC BASIC
> had a LOCAL keyword but it wasn't that useful.  There was dynamic memory
> allocation but no free so you could LOCAL DIM an array, but at the end of
> the function it wouldn't be freed so each call of the function was a memory
> leak.

Ahh... yes.

I worked at a small engineering company that made test beds to test 
motors, and the software was made in Basic, usually by someone at some 
university.

They were industrial engineers, they knew their machines and, and could 
design new things using computers to, for example, measure the power 
output of a bike or a marine engine at different rpms and graph it. And 
they used Basic (the compiled version from Microsoft) to do it.

I consider those engineers like pioneers.

> 
>>>>        Awesome! Here's a simple side-by-side comparison of BASIC vs.
>>>> MicroPython, using a classic "calculate the square of a number" example:
>>>>        🔷 BASIC (Casio fx-5800P style)
>>>>
>>>>        10 ?→A
>>>>        20 A×A→B
>>>>        30 B
>>>
>>> Is that BASIC?  It doesn't look much like it to me.  Really the only thing I
>>> recognise are the line numbers.
>>
>> I don't truly remember :-D
>>
>> I think the Casio variant of basic was richer. Well... it says fx-5800P,
>> mine was fx850PG, so a later model.
> 
> I'd write it as something like
> 
> 10 INPUT A
> 20 LET B=A*A
> 30 PRINT B

Right.

> 
> (LET being optional in some dialects)
> 
> Theo


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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Thread

General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 13:28 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-26 14:06 +0000
    Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 14:54 +0000
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 16:02 +0000
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 16:24 +0000
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-04-26 21:10 -0400
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 14:21 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 14:17 +0100
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-27 01:36 +0000
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2025-05-03 14:46 -0400
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0200
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-03 20:56 +0000
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:18 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-05-13 09:44 +0100
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 18:59 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-14 15:38 +0100
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:59 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-27 13:30 +0200
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:48 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:57 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:51 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:45 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 02:28 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-28 02:58 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 03:19 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 07:54 +0200
          Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-28 12:31 +0200
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 20:08 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:43 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 19:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 21:45 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-30 17:11 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:57 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-05-01 05:16 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 05:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:35 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2025-05-01 11:03 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <balglaas@dds.nl> - 2025-05-01 09:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:47 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:53 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:50 +0200
            Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:31 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:44 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:30 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:53 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:14 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 09:37 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:24 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:53 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:59 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:55 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:01 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:25 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:13 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 12:37 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:43 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 09:42 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:39 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-01 13:05 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:37 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 14:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:01 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:48 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:37 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:12 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:07 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:06 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-07 10:14 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 12:27 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 23:09 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 02:45 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-13 09:52 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 19:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 22:03 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-14 03:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-14 12:18 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:30 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:58 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:49 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-02 00:36 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:39 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:08 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:13 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-03 19:36 -0400
                Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:35 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 13:18 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:03 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-05-05 11:15 +0300
          Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-28 11:49 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:51 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:00 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 22:09 +0100
            Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:34 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 03:51 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 16:21 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 11:21 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-01 02:37 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:52 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 03:44 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:15 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:52 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-03 04:44 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 07:27 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:36 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:55 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:02 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:07 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 01:01 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:31 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:23 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 13:42 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:08 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 02:23 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:22 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:13 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:57 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:43 +0200
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 00:40 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:25 +0200
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:35 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-05-05 20:18 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:43 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:07 +0200
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:59 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 20:16 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:33 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 06:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:24 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:43 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-05 20:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:42 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:18 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 11:57 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 18:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:25 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-07 21:38 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:07 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:25 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:17 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:14 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 19:02 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:42 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:48 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 01:19 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:33 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:31 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 18:43 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-09 19:16 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-10 03:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 18:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:45 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 21:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:16 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 00:42 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:34 +0200
                Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:01 +0000
                Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 19:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:50 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:37 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:27 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:14 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:23 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:24 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:37 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 08:28 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:28 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:28 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 23:55 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:44 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-04 21:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:18 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:52 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:25 +0200
                Re: all the news that, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:05 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:48 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:05 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 04:07 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:16 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:46 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... maus <maus@debian.deb3> - 2025-05-05 07:14 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 08:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:34 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:49 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:28 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:02 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-06 14:06 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:38 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 16:37 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-06 18:38 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:59 +0000
                California toll road infection Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-05-07 11:16 -0700
                Re: California toll road infection Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-07 17:57 -0400
                Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 00:16 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:27 +0000
                cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:33 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 21:19 +0200
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 01:29 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-12 01:34 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 13:15 +0200
                Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-12 16:37 +0000
                Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:36 +0200
                Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-13 00:38 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:18 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> - 2025-05-12 07:42 +0200
                Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:16 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:27 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-08 13:35 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:28 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:54 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-09 20:35 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-07 18:44 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-07 20:35 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:53 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-20 10:33 +0100
                Re: Paying without Internet Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:56 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-21 20:05 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:19 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-21 20:46 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:13 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2025-05-21 22:31 +0100
                Re: Paying without Internet Chuck Martin <cmartin+usenetYYMMDD@nyx.net> - 2025-05-22 07:56 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-21 23:29 +0100
                Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-22 03:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 07:51 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:27 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 10:55 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:27 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:43 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:03 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 17:03 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:39 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:51 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:03 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-02 10:20 +0100
        Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-28 14:10 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 15:11 +0100
        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 19:55 +0200
          Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 21:58 +0100
            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:46 +0200
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:15 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-29 22:25 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-04-30 15:40 +0300
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 07:07 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:47 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 18:32 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 20:52 +0200
        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:40 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:19 +0000
            Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-30 02:14 +0000
              Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:19 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:31 +0200
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:05 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 12:58 -0700
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:35 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:52 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:44 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 14:43 +0000
              Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-04-30 09:10 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 03:40 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:21 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 11:09 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 13:20 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 17:00 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:58 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:11 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 14:55 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-26 18:55 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 14:03 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-04-26 20:02 -0300
    Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:41 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 21:03 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 22:45 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 01:51 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:47 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:46 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 03:30 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-28 04:48 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:41 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:36 -0600
  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 01:22 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... Oscar Toledo G. <biyubi@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 01:26 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 08:32 -0700

csiph-web