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Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ...

From "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ...
Date 2025-05-08 22:42 +0200
Message-ID <nihvelxv7c.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink)
References <slrn100pnsk.3f0p.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> <t5sselxevq.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <m82bv2Ftvm5U2@mid.individual.net> <nvjuelxhhj.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <vviopi$pma$1@gal.iecc.com>

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On 2025-05-08 19:14, John Levine wrote:
> According to Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid>:
>> I know that the DRM used by Adobe Digital Editions can be broken (for
>> backup purposes). I assume that something similar can be done with the
>> Amazon system.
> 
> Yup.  There is a calibre plugin.
> 
>> I wondered, though, if an  ebook can be resold or transferred to another
>> user, legally, ie, keeping the DRM. Something similar to what a library
>> does.
> 
> In the US at least, the answer is no.  For Kindle books there is a technical
> issue that the DRM includes the serial number of the device.  If you have
> several devices on your Kindle account, the copies downloaded to each have
> different serial numbers.
> 
> The major issue is that this has been litigated in court and the answer was a
> firm no.  A decade ago Redigi tried to make an aftermarket in iTunes downloads.
> They tried very hard to make it work and prevent sellers from keeping a copy
> but the record labels sued and won and Redigi is no more.  Publishers claim that
> you don't buy e-books, you only license them, and the terms of the license say
> it's specific to you, no resale or sublicense.  The Amazon lend a book to a
> friend feature is a narrow carveout in the license, not a general lending right.

Ah. I see.

But if I'm only getting a license to read the book while I am alive, the 
price should be significantly smaller than for the paper book, which can 
be inherited, or resold or gifted, for centuries.

> 
> I think this is absurd, and it is clearly an end run around the well settled
> first sale principle that says once you've bought a physical book, you can do
> anything with it you want other than make copies. That's why libraries exist;
> publishers claim they love libraries but if the law let them they would put the
> same restrictions on paper books that they do on e-books.
> 
> The law is somewhat different in other countries, but I don't know any that
> have first sale for e-books.

I don't know what exactly the law says here, in for dummies version.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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Thread

General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 13:28 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-26 14:06 +0000
    Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 14:54 +0000
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 16:02 +0000
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 16:24 +0000
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-04-26 21:10 -0400
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 14:21 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 14:17 +0100
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-27 01:36 +0000
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2025-05-03 14:46 -0400
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0200
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-03 20:56 +0000
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:18 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-05-13 09:44 +0100
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 18:59 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-14 15:38 +0100
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:59 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-27 13:30 +0200
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:48 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:57 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:51 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:45 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 02:28 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-28 02:58 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 03:19 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 07:54 +0200
          Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-28 12:31 +0200
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 20:08 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:43 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 19:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 21:45 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-30 17:11 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:57 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-05-01 05:16 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 05:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:35 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2025-05-01 11:03 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <balglaas@dds.nl> - 2025-05-01 09:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:47 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:53 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:50 +0200
            Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:31 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:44 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:30 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:53 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:14 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 09:37 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:24 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:53 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:59 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:55 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:01 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:25 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:13 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 12:37 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:43 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 09:42 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:39 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-01 13:05 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:37 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 14:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:01 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:48 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:37 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:12 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:07 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:06 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-07 10:14 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 12:27 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 23:09 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 02:45 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-13 09:52 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 19:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 22:03 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-14 03:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-14 12:18 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:30 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:58 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:49 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-02 00:36 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:39 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:08 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:13 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-03 19:36 -0400
                Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:35 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 13:18 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:03 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-05-05 11:15 +0300
          Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-28 11:49 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:51 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:00 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 22:09 +0100
            Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:34 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 03:51 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 16:21 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 11:21 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-01 02:37 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:52 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 03:44 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:15 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:52 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-03 04:44 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 07:27 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:36 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:55 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:02 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:07 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 01:01 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:31 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:23 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 13:42 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:08 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 02:23 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:22 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:13 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:57 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:43 +0200
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 00:40 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:25 +0200
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:35 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-05-05 20:18 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:43 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:07 +0200
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:59 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 20:16 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:33 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 06:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:24 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:43 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-05 20:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:42 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:18 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 11:57 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 18:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:25 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-07 21:38 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:07 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:25 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:17 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:14 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 19:02 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:42 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:48 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 01:19 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:33 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:31 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 18:43 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-09 19:16 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-10 03:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 18:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:45 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 21:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:16 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 00:42 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:34 +0200
                Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:01 +0000
                Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 19:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:50 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:37 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:27 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:14 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:23 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:24 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:37 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 08:28 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:28 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:28 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 23:55 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:44 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-04 21:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:18 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:52 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:25 +0200
                Re: all the news that, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:05 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:48 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:05 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 04:07 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:16 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:46 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... maus <maus@debian.deb3> - 2025-05-05 07:14 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 08:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:34 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:49 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:28 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:02 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-06 14:06 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:38 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 16:37 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-06 18:38 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:59 +0000
                California toll road infection Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-05-07 11:16 -0700
                Re: California toll road infection Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-07 17:57 -0400
                Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 00:16 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:27 +0000
                cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:33 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 21:19 +0200
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 01:29 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-12 01:34 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 13:15 +0200
                Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-12 16:37 +0000
                Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:36 +0200
                Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-13 00:38 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:18 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> - 2025-05-12 07:42 +0200
                Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:16 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:27 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-08 13:35 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:28 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:54 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-09 20:35 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-07 18:44 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-07 20:35 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:53 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-20 10:33 +0100
                Re: Paying without Internet Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:56 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-21 20:05 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:19 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-21 20:46 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:13 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2025-05-21 22:31 +0100
                Re: Paying without Internet Chuck Martin <cmartin+usenetYYMMDD@nyx.net> - 2025-05-22 07:56 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-21 23:29 +0100
                Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-22 03:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 07:51 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:27 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 10:55 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:27 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:43 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:03 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 17:03 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:39 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:51 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:03 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-02 10:20 +0100
        Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-28 14:10 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 15:11 +0100
        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 19:55 +0200
          Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 21:58 +0100
            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:46 +0200
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:15 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-29 22:25 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-04-30 15:40 +0300
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 07:07 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:47 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 18:32 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 20:52 +0200
        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:40 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:19 +0000
            Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-30 02:14 +0000
              Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:19 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:31 +0200
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:05 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 12:58 -0700
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:35 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:52 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:44 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 14:43 +0000
              Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-04-30 09:10 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 03:40 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:21 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 11:09 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 13:20 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 17:00 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:58 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:11 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 14:55 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-26 18:55 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 14:03 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-04-26 20:02 -0300
    Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:41 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 21:03 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 22:45 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 01:51 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:47 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:46 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 03:30 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-28 04:48 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:41 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:36 -0600
  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 01:22 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... Oscar Toledo G. <biyubi@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 01:26 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 08:32 -0700

csiph-web