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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #230680

Re: General Thoughts ...

From "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: General Thoughts ...
Date 2025-04-27 13:30 +0200
Message-ID <d3h1elxh8g.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink)
References <slrn100pnsk.3f0p.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> <vuip8c$s5lq$1@dont-email.me>

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On 2025-04-26 16:06, vallor wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 13:28:52 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
> 
>> Since traffic is presently so light ...
>>
>> In addition to a.f.c, I am also lurking on comp.arch. I have noticed
>> that at there is some overlap in readership. I have absolutely no
>> competency in the innards of processor architectures, but in listening
>> to the chatter between people who design x86-level toy architectures for
>> fun, I have gained an appreciation of just how much is below the surface
>> of the modern CPUs, and how powerful modern FPGAs (Field Programmable
>> Gate Arrays) are. A few years ago, they reached a level, where designers
>> of embedded systems routinely placed a Z80 emulator in the corner of an
>> FPGA they needed in their system anyway, so as to have an on-board
>> service processor for debugging. But these guys are building CPU
>> implementations with register renaming, speculative pre-fetching and
>> experimenting with how performance trades off between different sizes of
>> register files versus L1 cache sizes. For fun and on reasonable (?)
>> hobby budgets. I am in awe.
>>
>> So it feels a bit like the early days of my career, when I was a
>> comparatively junior programmer in a data communications equipment
>> company in the early days when the Internet was still more or less a
>> secret guild. Before Cisco, when X.25 was the advanced infrastructure,
>> and the company was trying to hedge their bets between TCP/IP and the
>> ISO network architectures. I felt like I was sitting in the corner of
>> the upper class homeroom, listening to the smart kids and admiring their
>> work, and feeling privileged to be allowed to be there.
>>
>> It was much later that I appreciated that my contribution was to be able
>> to ask questions that were not completely stupid, but were outside the
>> bubbles that the smart guys sometimes wrapped themselves in, as well to
>> be a generalist, more of a jack-of-many-trades-but- master-of-none. Did
>> not make me rich, but allowed me to have more of a life outside of work.
>>
>> In the last few days, these same guys are chatting about how they
>> designed programming languages because it seemed just as easy to design
>> and implement a primitive dialect of BASIC for a scripting job as to
>> figure out how to just write the script in Perl.
>>
>> And here I am, stuck with Perl, because it seems easier to use the tools
>> I know than to learn another tools like Python or JavaScript, because my
>> goal is to get the job done, not to learn new languages.
>>
>> Some days I feel old ...
> 
> I know how you feel.  My go-to language has been Perl since Perl 4, with
> C for anything that needs more performance.  Recently, I've been reading
> comp.lang.c, and thinking about going back to school to get my CS
> degree.  (I dropped out around 1992 to co-found an ISP, from which I
> am now "mostly retired".)
> 
> Looking at the local community college catalogue, I found their textbook
> for their didactic language -- C++ -- and have been going through it.  (I
> know only enough C++ to be dangerous, I'm much better at C.)
> 
> Thank goodness I was a much more serious student the second time around
> (starting in 1991), because back in '85-86 I was just coasting.  Ended
> up joining the Coast Guard, and after 4.4 years of that, I was _really_
> motivated to go back to school...
> 
> ObFolklore:  In High School, I learned 6502 assembler, and I was patching
> the Corvus-adapted Apple DOS 3.3 for security enhancements -- by default,
> one could "CATALOG V##" and end up in a different volume, which was
> essentially no security to speak of...

Curio.

The past century I bought a programmable calculator from Casio, a 
FX-850P. It used Basic. I lost or misplaced that calculator, so on a 
whim I got myself another programmable from the same brand, a 
fx-9860GIII, and this one comes with micro-python.

I asked chatgpt about this. The text is going to distort a bit, the 
original is html:


         Why Casio programmable calculators switched from Basic to 
micro-python?


     Casio's switch from BASIC to MicroPython in their programmable 
calculators reflects a broader trend in technology and education. Here’s 
why they likely made that move:

     1. Modernization & Relevance

         BASIC is outdated. While it was great in the 80s and 90s for 
teaching programming, it’s no longer widely used in real-world applications.

         Python is everywhere. MicroPython is a lean version of Python 
designed for embedded systems, and Python is currently one of the most 
popular programming languages globally—used in everything from web dev 
to data science to automation.

     2. Educational Shift

         STEM curriculum updates. Schools and educational programs are 
moving toward teaching Python because of its real-world application and 
readability.

         Career relevance. Students learning Python on a calculator are 
gaining skills they can immediately apply to jobs, projects, or further 
learning.

     3. Better Programming Model

         Structured and modular. MicroPython allows more structured 
programming than BASIC, with features like functions, imports, and 
better error handling.

         Readable and intuitive. Python syntax is much cleaner and more 
intuitive for beginners than classic BASIC (which often relies on things 
like line numbers and GOTO statements).

     4. Hardware Capability

         Improved hardware. Newer Casio calculators have more processing 
power and memory, which can handle the slightly heavier MicroPython 
interpreter.

         USB connectivity and storage make it easier to load and save 
MicroPython scripts.

     5. Community and Ecosystem

         Bigger support community. Python has a massive global 
community, so students and teachers can find tons of tutorials, 
examples, and help.

         Cross-platform compatibility. Students can practice Python both 
on the calculator and on a PC or phone using the same syntax.

     Summary:

     Casio shifted from BASIC to MicroPython to stay relevant, provide 
better educational value, and align with modern programming trends. It’s 
a move from a retro learning tool to something that sets students up for 
real-world tech use.

     Want a quick side-by-side comparison of what coding looks like in 
BASIC vs. MicroPython?


         Yes, please


     Awesome! Here's a simple side-by-side comparison of BASIC vs. 
MicroPython, using a classic "calculate the square of a number" example:
     🔷 BASIC (Casio fx-5800P style)

     10 ?→A
     20 A×A→B
     30 B

     Explanation:

         Line numbers are required.

         ?→A prompts for input and stores it in A.

         A×A→B calculates the square and stores it in B.

         30 B displays the result.

     🐍 MicroPython (Casio fx-CG50 or fx-991CW)

     a = float(input("Enter a number: "))
     b = a * a
     print("The square is:", b)

     Explanation:

         Standard Python syntax.

         Uses input() and print() functions like you'd see on a computer.

         Clean, readable, and doesn’t need line numbers.

     🔍 Key Differences
     Feature 	BASIC 	MicroPython
     Syntax Style 	Line numbers, symbolic 	Indented blocks, readable syntax
     Input/Output 	Symbol-based (?→A, 30 A) 	Text-based (input(), print())
     Variables 	Single-letter (A–Z) typically 	Any valid names (a, 
radius, etc.)
     Control Structures 	GOTO, GOSUB, IF...THEN 	if, for, while, functions
     Learning Relevance 	Mostly retro/historical 	Modern, real-world 
applicable

     If you’ve got a specific kind of program in mind—like a physics 
equation, a loop, or even a simple game—I can show you how both versions 
would look for that too. Want to try one?

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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Thread

General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 13:28 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-26 14:06 +0000
    Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 14:54 +0000
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 16:02 +0000
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 16:24 +0000
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-04-26 21:10 -0400
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 14:21 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 14:17 +0100
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-27 01:36 +0000
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2025-05-03 14:46 -0400
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0200
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-03 20:56 +0000
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:18 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-05-13 09:44 +0100
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 18:59 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-14 15:38 +0100
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:59 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-27 13:30 +0200
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:48 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:57 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:51 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:45 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 02:28 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-28 02:58 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 03:19 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 07:54 +0200
          Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-28 12:31 +0200
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 20:08 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:43 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 19:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 21:45 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-30 17:11 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:57 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-05-01 05:16 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 05:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:35 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2025-05-01 11:03 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <balglaas@dds.nl> - 2025-05-01 09:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:47 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:53 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:50 +0200
            Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:31 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:44 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:30 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:53 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:14 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 09:37 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:24 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:53 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:59 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:55 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:01 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:25 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:13 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 12:37 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:43 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 09:42 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:39 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-01 13:05 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:37 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 14:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:01 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:48 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:37 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:12 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:07 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:06 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-07 10:14 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 12:27 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 23:09 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 02:45 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-13 09:52 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 19:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 22:03 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-14 03:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-14 12:18 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:30 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:58 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:49 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-02 00:36 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:39 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:08 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:13 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-03 19:36 -0400
                Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:35 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 13:18 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:03 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-05-05 11:15 +0300
          Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-28 11:49 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:51 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:00 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 22:09 +0100
            Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:34 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 03:51 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 16:21 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 11:21 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-01 02:37 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:52 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 03:44 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:15 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:52 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-03 04:44 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 07:27 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:36 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:55 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:02 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:07 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 01:01 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:31 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:23 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 13:42 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:08 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 02:23 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:22 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:13 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:57 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:43 +0200
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 00:40 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:25 +0200
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:35 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-05-05 20:18 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:43 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:07 +0200
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:59 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 20:16 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:33 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 06:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:24 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:43 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-05 20:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:42 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:18 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 11:57 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 18:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:25 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-07 21:38 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:07 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:25 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:17 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:14 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 19:02 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:42 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:48 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 01:19 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:33 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:31 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 18:43 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-09 19:16 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-10 03:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 18:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:45 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 21:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:16 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 00:42 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:34 +0200
                Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:01 +0000
                Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 19:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:50 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:37 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:27 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:14 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:23 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:24 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:37 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 08:28 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:28 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:28 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 23:55 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:44 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-04 21:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:18 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:52 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:25 +0200
                Re: all the news that, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:05 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:48 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:05 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 04:07 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:16 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:46 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... maus <maus@debian.deb3> - 2025-05-05 07:14 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 08:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:34 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:49 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:28 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:02 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-06 14:06 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:38 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 16:37 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-06 18:38 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:59 +0000
                California toll road infection Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-05-07 11:16 -0700
                Re: California toll road infection Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-07 17:57 -0400
                Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 00:16 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:27 +0000
                cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:33 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 21:19 +0200
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 01:29 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-12 01:34 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 13:15 +0200
                Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-12 16:37 +0000
                Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:36 +0200
                Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-13 00:38 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:18 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> - 2025-05-12 07:42 +0200
                Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:16 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:27 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-08 13:35 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:28 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:54 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-09 20:35 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-07 18:44 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-07 20:35 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:53 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-20 10:33 +0100
                Re: Paying without Internet Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:56 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-21 20:05 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:19 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-21 20:46 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:13 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2025-05-21 22:31 +0100
                Re: Paying without Internet Chuck Martin <cmartin+usenetYYMMDD@nyx.net> - 2025-05-22 07:56 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-21 23:29 +0100
                Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-22 03:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 07:51 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:27 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 10:55 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:27 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:43 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:03 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 17:03 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:39 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:51 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:03 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-02 10:20 +0100
        Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-28 14:10 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 15:11 +0100
        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 19:55 +0200
          Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 21:58 +0100
            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:46 +0200
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:15 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-29 22:25 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-04-30 15:40 +0300
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 07:07 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:47 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 18:32 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 20:52 +0200
        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:40 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:19 +0000
            Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-30 02:14 +0000
              Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:19 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:31 +0200
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:05 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 12:58 -0700
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:35 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:52 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:44 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 14:43 +0000
              Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-04-30 09:10 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 03:40 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:21 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 11:09 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 13:20 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 17:00 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:58 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:11 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 14:55 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-26 18:55 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 14:03 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-04-26 20:02 -0300
    Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:41 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 21:03 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 22:45 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 01:51 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:47 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:46 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 03:30 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-28 04:48 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:41 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:36 -0600
  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 01:22 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... Oscar Toledo G. <biyubi@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 01:26 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 08:32 -0700

csiph-web