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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #235512

The Amarna Letters, Hebrew -- wait, which brew? (was: Re: Origin Of Filename ... text and civilization? doomsday?)

Subject The Amarna Letters, Hebrew -- wait, which brew? (was: Re: Origin Of Filename ... text and civilization? doomsday?)
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers, alt.english.usage, alt.ascii.art, alt.usage.english, alt.history.ancient-egypt
References (12 earlier) <1179tra$33d2o$1@dont-email.me> <117a5vn$35q9q$8@dont-email.me> <1788410695-4353@newsgrouper.org> <117aunl$3d9f4$1@dont-email.me> <1788413379-4353@newsgrouper.org>
From Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid>
Organization Watcom Pro Ltd.
Message-ID <2_bmS.2124$yo3.1274@fx03.ams4> (permalink)
Date 2026-09-03 18:29 +0800

Cross-posted to 5 groups.

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On 03/09/2026 1:29 PM, James Dow Allen wrote:
> 
> Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> posted:
> 
>> On Thu, 03 Sep 2026 04:44:55 GMT, James Dow Allen wrote:
>>
>>> These tablets are mostly, respectively, letters to the King of Mari
>>> (Zimri-Lin or his predecessor) and letters to Pharaohs Amenhotep III and
>>> Amenhotep IV (Akhenaten) of Egypt.
>>>
>>> ... plus there is one difficult-to-translate word found at both Mari
>>> and Amarna which isn't translated. That word is "Apiru" or "Habiru."
>>> This same word appears in other ancient Near Eastern and Egyptian
>>> texts.
>>>
>>> Most, but certainly not all, scholars believe 'Apiru' to be cognate
>>> with English 'Hebrew.' Best here may be to peer no further down this
>>> rabbit-hole.
>>
>> No rabbit-hole. I think it’s known from elsewhere that the Hebrews
>> were one of the subject tribes of the Egyptian Empire. Just one of
>> many.
> 
> No.  "Apiru" is widely thought to denote "mercenary soldier" or "bandit" or
> "outsider."  Proposed etymologies include "From beyond the river" or
> "(from the land of) dust."
> 

Actually (O^O) -- that's inline A.S.C.I.I. art for a guy pushing up his
glasses, so I've included alt.ascii-art in this discussion -- as I've
talked to a real live Jew, there is an ancient tradition among them-
selves that they were a warrior nation, so the etymology should be con-
sidered -- and maybe rejected -- in a new light.  That they are the
"Apiru" of Egypt.

Now, we have modern examples of such adaptions of /foreign terms/, as
the very own yearly /Viking Festival/ in Iceland.  Of course, that term
didn't get applied to the whole nation, but that can be considered an
accident of history, division between the other Nordic nations, and gen-
eral warfare between themselves; and of coures, having never been sub-
jects to the Bri'ish except for a very short duration during W.W.I.I.

Something maybe not even the Bri'ish of alt.folklore.computers nor alt.
english.usage may remember.

Anyway, we now have history thread to uncover.  Whether we're successful
or not remains to be seen, as there's ample evidence that Egyptologists
do not like it when people from other fields /butt in/ on their expert-
iese.  For a good -- and by Usenet standards -- ancient flamewar, see
Bernal's /Black Athena/ and the relevant counter arguments, all publish-
ed in physical book form; which may also appear an archive.org but I
didn't check this time.  Nowadays, real life Egyptologists agree that
the study of classics -- I believe they call themselves classicists wi-
thout any relation to C++ -- was indeed liberally literatted [sic] with
racism; and that without any race horses.

I personally admit little interested in reading the /Amarna Letters/ --
I believe that's the term Egyptologists use for the stash -- because I'm
quite frankly tired of Akhenaten and his ilk; side not for alt.usage.
english, is "ilk" considered a common word, or one of the /ChatGPT voca-
bulary/? -- so I will not be undertaking this endeavour [sic] myself.

> Several of the Amarna letters appeal to Pharaoh for soldiers or archers
> to defend from invading Apiru.  There is a very intriguing mention of
> "hapiru" in the more ancient Mari letters.  Rather than wading through
> my maze of notes and bookmarks, just now I asked the bot for a summary.
> Urkesh was Mari's northernmost province, bordering on Hurrian lands.
> Terru was its Governor.


Ah, there you confirm my terminology; thank you.

> 
> Google's Gemini wrote:
>>> In ARM 28, 46, Terru writes a letter to King Zimri-Lim of Mari explaining
>>> that after being forced from power at Urkesh, he had to abandon his
>>> house and leave to live as a displaced outsider (ḫapiru) in the town
>>> of Šinaḫ. The Akkadian phrase "ana ḫapīrūtim attaṣi" reflects a shift
>>> into a stateless, socio-political exile rather than an ethnic transition.
> 
> In Genesis, "Hebrew" appears almost exclusively as an exonym.  Among themselves
> the enslaved "Hebrews" refer to themselves as "Children of Israel."

That would indeed strengthen my hypothesis, but you're free to refute
me as I am not a Hebrew, nor a Jew.

In addition to the other groups, I've added alt.history.ancient-egypt.


Best wishes, and happy studies of the veritable Amarna letters, sans the
English translations!
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;

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