Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.unix.programmer > #17193

Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation?

Show all headers | View raw

On 2026-06-09, boltar@caprica.universe <boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 23:34:13 -0000 (UTC)
> Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> gabbled:
>>On 2026-05-31, boltar@caprica.universe <boltar@caprica.universe> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 30 May 2026 14:30:16 -0400
>>> Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> gabbled:
>>>>On 3/26/26 10:38 AM, Lew Pitcher wrote:
>>>>> Remember, ChatGPT is a text-prediction program, and has no
>>>>> experience or intrinsic knowledge of groff. 
>>>>
>>>>it also has no intrinsic logic
>>>
>>> It does in the sense of the low level ANN programming that allows it to 
>>> function, but it builds up its own logic and knowledge as its trained.
>>> People are too dismissive of these systems - they're a lot smarter than a lot
>>
>>> of people particularly in IT would like to believe.
>>
>>They are a lot dumber than people believe.
>>
>>A simple hash table token predictor trained on a large body of text
>>using 4-grams keys (strings of four words) to predict the fifth word
>>will produce some amazing outputs.
>
> Oh please. I've written at least 4 markov chain programs in my career and
> they don't get anywhere close to what an LLM can output.

Right; nobody is saying that. My point is that these simple programs
have already produced some outputs that have made people go "wow!".  

The point is that people going "wow!" is not a reliable yardstick of anything.

> don't simply spit out chunks of text they've ingested joined together by
> keywords, they have some kind of - limited - understanding of the subject in 
> hand or they wouldn't be able to extrapolate and interpolate.

These things purely interpolate. They do it at such a scale of data that
you can't tell interpolation from extrapolation. Except maybe if it
happens to land in your area of extensive expertise.

> If you don't
> believe my try it. Then there's the part no one mentions - the ability to
> understand the input text in a meaningful way. Something no markov chain 
> can do.

The meaning is entirely bundled in the training data.

You can extract meaning from a book. Yet a book doesn't think.

You don't feel that it can think because you are the one doing the
search for meaning, and the texts you are finding were obviously written
by the author, so you project the thinking ability onto that author.

The LLM interposes itself as a middle man broker of information in such
a way that it appears to be doing the thinking, but all the thinking
already went into the training material.

>>An algorithm predicting using much more sophisticated linear algebra,
>>over a data set of terabytes upon terabytes of text, encompasses a scale
>>that is so completely alien to your experience and scope, that your
>>intuitions about it have no hope of being correct.
>
> Don't patronise me.

By your, I mean everyone, you and me. I should say "we".  Our intuitions
are completely in uncharted waters when faced with a contextual
path-finding engine that wades through terabytes of compressed text,
with a high degree of statistical accuracy.

I like to think of it as a transformation that lets me have a
quasi-conversation with the training data.  I.e. the training data
perhaps holds some scattered pieces of info I'd like to retrieve,
an the LLM provides a conversational query system to get at it.

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

Back to comp.unix.programmer | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2026-03-26 14:08 +0000
  Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2026-03-26 14:38 +0000
    Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2026-03-26 14:45 +0000
    Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2026-03-26 14:59 +0000
    Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? boltar@caprica.universe - 2026-03-26 15:07 +0000
    Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 19:48 +0000
    Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2026-05-30 14:30 -0400
      Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? boltar@caprica.universe - 2026-05-31 07:25 +0000
        Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-01 00:11 +0000
          Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? boltar@caprica.universe - 2026-06-01 08:17 +0000
            Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-02 00:09 +0000
              Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? boltar@caprica.universe - 2026-06-02 08:21 +0000
                Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-02 05:58 -0400
                Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? boltar@caprica.universe - 2026-06-02 10:38 +0000
        Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-06-08 23:34 +0000
          Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? boltar@caprica.universe - 2026-06-09 08:46 +0000
            Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-06-09 21:15 +0000
              Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? boltar@caprica.universe - 2026-06-10 08:19 +0000
                Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-10 09:14 -0400
                Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? boltar@caprica.universe - 2026-06-10 15:01 +0000
                Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-06-23 22:56 +0000
                Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2026-06-23 23:37 +0000
                Re: groff: how to completely disable hyphenation? boltar@caprica.universe - 2026-06-24 07:13 +0000

csiph-web