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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #48142

Re: Is it sill FORTH ?

From anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Is it sill FORTH ?
Date 2016-06-14 12:41 +0000
Organization Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID <2016Jun14.144145@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <f5ab7223-ba01-47a1-a72e-b43156c04a98@googlegroups.com> <17873d92-657f-494a-8c0f-6bd2ad5d212a@googlegroups.com> <874m8wpv2l.fsf@nightsong.com> <njnf86$5on$1@dont-email.me> <f3d57db2-9195-4565-aac8-a0fd79d1cc7b@googlegroups.com>

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krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org writes:
>I expect a constant to be in RAM because Forth supports an interactive envi=
>ronment, so I should be able to obtain the value of a constant onto the sta=
>ck from the interpreter.

There are systems such as Mecrisp that compile to flash, where you
cannot overwrite individual cells.  They don't have enough RAM to keep
all the code in RAM.

Concerning the expectations that changing a constant (where it works)
affects earlier compiled uses of the constant, this is just one of the
ways to be flexible.  Consider the following:

5 variable x
x .           \ A
x
7 ' x >body !
.             \ B

Should the output B be 7?  Should the output A change to 7 when the
constant is changed?

The likely answer of a Forth user is "no", because no Forth systems
behave that way.  But if you argue with flexibility, this would be
more flexible, no?  And indeed I have seen a presentation of IIRC
DrScheme (now DrRacket) where IIRC a time was output, and the output
changed (similar to changing A in the example above) as time passed.

Should we go there?  Maybe.  Should this be the default behaviour of
everything?  I don't think so.

So we had a time (and implementation approach) where changing
constants changed the values used in earlier-compiled code, and with
currently prevailing implementations, the default is that changing
constants does not affect earlier compiled code, but you can get the
old behaviour by redefining CONSTANT.  And it seems that production
code out there is not negatively impacted by the currently prevailing
behaviour.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2016: http://www.euroforth.org/ef16/

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Thread

Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-13 13:41 -0700
  Re: Is it sill FORTH ? crc <charles.childers@gmail.com> - 2016-06-13 13:57 -0700
    Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-13 15:18 -0700
      Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-13 15:34 -0700
        Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-13 15:37 -0700
        Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-13 15:45 -0700
          Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-13 15:54 -0700
            Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2016-06-14 01:41 +0200
              Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-13 16:48 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-06-14 03:24 -0500
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 02:53 -0700
              Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2016-06-14 01:53 +0200
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-13 17:25 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-13 22:23 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 03:13 -0400
                VALUE Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-06-14 09:17 +0200
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-06-14 03:51 -0500
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-14 02:45 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-06-15 04:21 -0500
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 21:02 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-05 21:48 -1000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? missycurl@gmail.com - 2016-08-06 05:37 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 06:37 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-08-06 08:53 -0500
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 07:18 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 07:40 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-06 15:07 -1000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-06 19:14 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 10:38 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-07 20:57 -1000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@nothishetnet.nl> - 2016-08-08 22:20 +0200
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-08 12:14 -1000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-09 00:29 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-06 19:30 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 07:42 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-07 13:34 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-08-08 16:13 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-08-08 15:36 -0500
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? jim.brakefield@ieee.org - 2016-08-06 06:28 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-08-08 16:42 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-08 12:31 -1000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-08 16:38 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? mhx@iae.nl - 2016-08-08 22:49 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-08 23:43 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-08 22:16 -1000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2016-08-09 03:54 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 03:42 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-14 04:58 -0700
            Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 05:04 -0700
          Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-13 19:22 -0400
            Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 05:22 -0700
              Re: Is it sill FORTH ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-06-14 12:41 +0000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 06:30 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-06-14 14:21 +0000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 13:21 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-06-14 17:45 -0400
              Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-06-14 10:55 -0500
          Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-13 16:38 -0700
            Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-13 16:41 -0700
              Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 03:54 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-14 08:14 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 13:24 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 11:03 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-14 12:42 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 13:28 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-14 13:42 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 14:47 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 19:37 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-14 17:01 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-14 17:06 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-06-15 07:57 +0200
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-06-15 16:12 +0200
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-06-15 03:20 -0500
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 20:20 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-14 17:33 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 21:21 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 19:57 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 23:03 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-14 20:31 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 01:36 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-06-18 12:54 +0000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-06-18 13:28 +0000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-18 07:17 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 18:31 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-06-25 14:55 +0000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-25 19:58 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 21:14 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 19:32 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-14 17:13 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-14 17:21 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-14 18:36 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-06-15 16:06 +0200
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-15 06:36 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-06-15 09:20 -0500
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-15 10:55 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-15 11:07 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-06-15 16:20 +0200
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? mhx@iae.nl - 2016-06-15 11:19 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-06-14 22:10 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 01:33 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 19:31 -0400
      Re: Is it sill FORTH ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-06-14 11:15 +0000
    Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 05:02 -0700
      Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 01:44 -0700
        Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 08:31 -0700
          Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-15 17:10 -0700
      Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-08-05 01:09 +0000
  Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-06-14 00:55 -0700
  Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-06-14 16:15 +0200
    Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-06-15 15:43 -0700
    Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-15 17:03 -0700
      Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 22:36 -0400
  Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Mat <dambere@web.de> - 2016-06-26 04:14 -0700
    Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2016-06-26 14:50 +0200
      Re: Is it sill FORTH ? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-26 18:58 -0700
        Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-06-26 22:41 -1000

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