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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #49807

Re: Is it sill FORTH ?

Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Date 2016-08-05 21:02 -0700
References (7 earlier) <1s4p3yueyfoaa$.1eceb4lzfz11k.dlg@40tude.net> <a4fd1547-d40a-48f3-b05a-0a59d2df9809@googlegroups.com> <1622adbf-7d5a-45f0-aa43-353fc553177b@googlegroups.com> <_LSdnUrFsvUCWMLKnZ2dnUU7-IPNnZ2d@supernews.com> <a54866d8-8985-4eda-9c7e-d3c94766a1cc@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID <9547bfc2-3e29-4e82-bde3-e582fd584df4@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject Re: Is it sill FORTH ?
From Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com>

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On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 2:45:47 AM UTC-7, Marek Brunda wrote:
> We have: CONSTANT VARIABLE VALUE USER
> 
> There is no clarification if CONSTANT is truly immutable (really it's on half way).
> 
> VARIABLE vs VALUE - it seems the VARIABLEs are used for "good known" variables for historical reasons. VALUES for the rest. For me it's syntactic sugar but not truly lightweight as syntactic sugar should be.
> 
> As I understand this, it's just chaos without conception.

Maybe the problem is that the ANS standard assumes understanding of Forth implementations. When it mentions an ambiguous condition, you are expected to understand the various reasons it might be ambiguous. They should fix that with hyperlinks to allow drilling down to a detailed rationale.

A mutable constant is called a VALUE. I wouldn't consider a CONSTANT to be mutable or tickable. It's reasonable to assume that any Forth you use will support VALUEs.

VARIABLEs are actually quite powerful because of the extensibility they provide. Suppose you have VARIABLE FOO. You have lots of code that uses FOO. Then, at some point you decide FOO should be an array instead of a single variable. No problem, you can define something like this:

VARIABLE 'FOO
: NEWFOO  ( <name> -- )  
   CREATE HERE , CELL ALLOT 
   DOES> 'FOO !
;
: FOO  ( -- a )  
   'FOO @ 
;

NEWFOO MYFOO    \ create a new instance of FOO
MYFOO           \ select the new instance
100 FOO !       \ store to this instance of FOO

The thing to understand about Forth is that everything is there for a reason. Chuck Moore and others developed the language based on several decades of real world experience and a pruning process that removed features that weren't useful.

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Thread

Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-13 13:41 -0700
  Re: Is it sill FORTH ? crc <charles.childers@gmail.com> - 2016-06-13 13:57 -0700
    Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-13 15:18 -0700
      Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-13 15:34 -0700
        Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-13 15:37 -0700
        Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-13 15:45 -0700
          Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-13 15:54 -0700
            Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2016-06-14 01:41 +0200
              Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-13 16:48 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-06-14 03:24 -0500
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 02:53 -0700
              Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2016-06-14 01:53 +0200
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-13 17:25 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-13 22:23 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 03:13 -0400
                VALUE Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-06-14 09:17 +0200
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-06-14 03:51 -0500
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-14 02:45 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-06-15 04:21 -0500
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 21:02 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-05 21:48 -1000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? missycurl@gmail.com - 2016-08-06 05:37 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 06:37 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-08-06 08:53 -0500
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 07:18 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 07:40 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-06 15:07 -1000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-06 19:14 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 10:38 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-07 20:57 -1000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@nothishetnet.nl> - 2016-08-08 22:20 +0200
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-08 12:14 -1000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-09 00:29 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-06 19:30 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 07:42 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-07 13:34 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-08-08 16:13 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-08-08 15:36 -0500
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? jim.brakefield@ieee.org - 2016-08-06 06:28 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-08-08 16:42 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-08 12:31 -1000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-08 16:38 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? mhx@iae.nl - 2016-08-08 22:49 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-08 23:43 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-08 22:16 -1000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2016-08-09 03:54 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 03:42 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-14 04:58 -0700
            Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 05:04 -0700
          Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-13 19:22 -0400
            Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 05:22 -0700
              Re: Is it sill FORTH ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-06-14 12:41 +0000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 06:30 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-06-14 14:21 +0000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 13:21 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-06-14 17:45 -0400
              Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-06-14 10:55 -0500
          Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-13 16:38 -0700
            Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-13 16:41 -0700
              Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 03:54 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-14 08:14 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 13:24 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 11:03 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-14 12:42 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 13:28 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-14 13:42 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 14:47 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 19:37 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-14 17:01 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-14 17:06 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-06-15 07:57 +0200
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-06-15 16:12 +0200
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-06-15 03:20 -0500
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 20:20 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-14 17:33 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 21:21 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-14 19:57 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 23:03 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-14 20:31 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 01:36 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-06-18 12:54 +0000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-06-18 13:28 +0000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-18 07:17 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 18:31 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-06-25 14:55 +0000
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-25 19:58 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 21:14 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 19:32 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-14 17:13 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Marek Brunda <marekb@phoenics.org> - 2016-06-14 17:21 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-14 18:36 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-06-15 16:06 +0200
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-15 06:36 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-06-15 09:20 -0500
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-15 10:55 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-15 11:07 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-06-15 16:20 +0200
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? mhx@iae.nl - 2016-06-15 11:19 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-06-14 22:10 -0700
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 01:33 -0400
                Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 19:31 -0400
      Re: Is it sill FORTH ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-06-14 11:15 +0000
    Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 05:02 -0700
      Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 01:44 -0700
        Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 08:31 -0700
          Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-15 17:10 -0700
      Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-08-05 01:09 +0000
  Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-06-14 00:55 -0700
  Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-06-14 16:15 +0200
    Re: Is it sill FORTH ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-06-15 15:43 -0700
    Re: Is it sill FORTH ? krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2016-06-15 17:03 -0700
      Re: Is it sill FORTH ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 22:36 -0400
  Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Mat <dambere@web.de> - 2016-06-26 04:14 -0700
    Re: Is it sill FORTH ? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2016-06-26 14:50 +0200
      Re: Is it sill FORTH ? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-26 18:58 -0700
        Re: Is it sill FORTH ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-06-26 22:41 -1000

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