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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #30425

Re: gforth too bloated ?

From anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: gforth too bloated ?
Date 2014-05-16 16:09 +0000
Organization Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID <2014May16.180948@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <kv2dnZxzlai0Ge3OnZ2dnUVZ_hidnZ2d@supernews.com> <2014May13.184005@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <vOqdnSltB9Qkwe_OnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@supernews.com> <2014May14.135252@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <xcKdnRJyX6hKL-7OnZ2dnUVZ_uednZ2d@supernews.com>

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"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> writes:
>On 5/14/14 1:52 AM, Anton Ertl wrote:
>> "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> writes:
>>> On 5/13/14 6:40 AM, Anton Ertl wrote:
>>>> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>>>> But so what?  You just write another back end; surely a Forth back end
>>>>> doesn't have to be a huge job.
...
>> AMD64 became available 11 years ago, and Gforth supported it right
>> away.  Of the Forths-in-Forth, lina took five years to support AMD64,
>> iForth took 6 (and stopped further IA-32 releases at the same time),
>> and SwiftForth, VFX and bigForth still don't support it 11 years
>> later.  It seems that, while retargeting is theoretically easy, in
>> practice it's hard enough that it rarely happens.
>
>Well, we support platforms based on demand from customers. As folks who 
>rely customers to support us, we have to! SwiftForth is available for 3 
>OSs (Windows, Linux, Mac) and SwiftX currently supports 10 
>microcontroller families (ARM. Coldfire, MSP430, AVR, 68HCS08, 68K, 
>68HC12, 68HC11, 8051, i386, 69R000, and RTX2010.

And earlier you wrote:

|It typically takes a few weeks (2-4) to deal with a new processor plus 
|drivers, etc., and including fairly serious performance goals.

So while that's not a huge job, it's not a small one, either.  You
expect a certain level of demand before you take that job.  Given the
time budget we have had for Gforth, we certainly could not afford that
for all the architectures that we tested on (and Gforth ran on
platforms that we had not tested on).  For 0.7.0, we tested on Alpha,
ARM, IA-32, IA-64, PowerPC, PowerPC64, SPARC, AMD64 (8 architectures),
and it probably worked on other architectures (including HPPA and
MIPS, which we had tested for 0.6.2).

If we had restricted Gforth to be pure Forth-in-Forth, we would not
have achieved the goals we wanted to achieve.  For those who want this
kind of purity for whatever reasons, there are a number of Forth
systems available, foremost among them colorForth.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2014: http://www.euroforth.org/ef14/

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gforth too bloated ? Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 13:06 -0700
  Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-07 13:31 -0700
    Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-08 00:10 +0200
      Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-07 23:21 -0700
        Re: gforth too bloated ? Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 04:07 -0700
        Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-08 14:21 +0200
        Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-09 17:36 +0000
      Re: gforth too bloated ? dambere@web.de - 2014-05-09 15:01 -0700
        Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-10 00:05 +0200
        Re: gforth too bloated ? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2014-05-10 00:30 +0200
          Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-10 09:16 +0000
        Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-10 03:27 +0000
          Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-09 20:42 -0700
    Re: gforth too bloated ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 22:32 -0400
      Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-07 21:06 -0700
      Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-09 04:14 -0500
        Re: gforth too bloated ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 13:42 -0400
          Re: gforth too bloated ? Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 11:48 -0700
            Re: gforth too bloated ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 15:18 -0400
          Re: gforth too bloated ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-09 09:19 -1000
            Re: gforth too bloated ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 15:30 -0400
              Re: gforth too bloated ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-09 13:21 -1000
          Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-10 05:16 -0500
            Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-10 05:28 -0500
              Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-10 10:39 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-10 12:04 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-11 12:10 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bill Long <blongo@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 13:11 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Stan Barr <plan.b@dsl.pipex.com> - 2014-05-11 16:17 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bill Long <blongo@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 17:10 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-11 08:34 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-11 22:12 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-12 00:38 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-12 00:35 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-11 23:29 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-11 23:37 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-11 23:40 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-12 00:39 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-12 10:20 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-12 05:10 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-13 09:17 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-13 04:28 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-12 03:19 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-13 16:40 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-13 07:56 -1000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-14 11:52 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-14 08:15 -1000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-16 16:09 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-16 09:42 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-16 17:21 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-16 10:45 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-13 12:56 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-14 12:03 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-14 09:17 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-14 16:50 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? AKK <akk@nospam.org> - 2014-05-14 20:26 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-05-14 20:38 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-14 20:02 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-15 14:22 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-15 17:39 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-15 15:03 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-15 15:06 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-15 15:32 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-16 02:13 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-15 20:18 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-16 04:08 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-16 04:28 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-16 09:23 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-17 07:52 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-17 09:19 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-17 11:51 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Samuel DEVULDER <samuel-dot-devulder-at-laposte-dot-net> - 2014-05-17 22:00 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-16 09:20 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-17 07:54 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-16 15:51 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2014-05-16 07:59 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-16 13:39 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-16 01:22 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-16 04:11 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-05-16 15:43 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-16 01:26 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-16 03:42 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-16 13:19 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-16 17:59 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-18 13:20 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-18 14:08 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-18 10:07 -1000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-21 21:37 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-05-22 10:06 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-22 10:04 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-05-22 15:39 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-22 13:36 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-20 11:59 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2014-05-20 07:11 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-20 14:48 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-21 20:27 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-22 02:23 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-23 14:51 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-23 13:41 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-21 17:41 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-23 14:41 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-21 17:40 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-23 14:16 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-17 21:09 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-15 03:57 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-15 15:50 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-15 10:07 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-16 16:33 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-17 08:04 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-17 19:03 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-18 04:06 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-19 01:38 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-20 13:38 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-20 21:39 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-21 15:49 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-17 20:30 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-17 17:59 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-18 04:08 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-18 11:07 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-18 11:15 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-18 12:11 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-20 12:36 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2014-05-20 07:17 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2014-05-20 16:26 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-20 09:27 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-20 15:48 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-05-20 18:35 +0100
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-21 03:45 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-21 14:28 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-21 11:56 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-21 20:54 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-22 14:06 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-22 17:02 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-23 13:05 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-23 19:19 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-22 14:30 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-22 12:09 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-21 17:22 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-23 14:03 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-05-20 16:57 +0100
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-20 21:28 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-05-20 21:56 +0100
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-21 00:21 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-21 21:42 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-22 02:15 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-23 14:47 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-21 14:12 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-21 21:24 +0000
              Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-10 12:00 +0000
              Re: gforth too bloated ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 13:16 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-10 11:05 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-10 18:11 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-11 02:12 +0200
    Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-09 16:36 +0000
  Re: gforth too bloated ? jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 20:01 -0700

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