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| From | Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes |
| Date | 2012-02-04 18:32 +0000 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <20120204192119.182@kylheku.com> (permalink) |
| References | (2 earlier) <jgd0s2$mj5$1@reader1.panix.com> <jgd2jk$1v2$1@dont-email.me> <jgh27g$q87$1@reader1.panix.com> <jgi50h$qp$1@dont-email.me> <jgj6fi$14q$1@dont-email.me> |
On 2012-02-04, James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> wrote: > On 02/03/2012 09:26 PM, Eric Sosman wrote: > ... >> ... and nothing in the C Standard bars a pointer from carrying >> information about the legitimate bounds of what it points at. ... > ... >> C implementations that support such strict bounds checking are >> as rare as principled politicians, ... > > While run-time bounds checking is the simplest way to explain how it > could matter, there is a more subtle way that I suspect is far more > likely to come up. Given: > > int a[5][4]; > int *p = a[0]; > int *q = a[1]; > > The fact that it's undefined behavior to dereference p+n or q+n for n<0 This is not a fact but only an opinion. It's easy to argue against this opinion because: - arrays are a thin abstraction that really just work with pointer displacement and dereferencing. - a[0][0] and a[0][1], etc, are not separate objects. This "alternative array geometry" trick doesn't actually produce an out of bounds pointer. - all the lvalues involved have the same type, int. - all the lvalues are from pointers to correct addresses. So, a strong checking on array subobjects, if provided by a compiler, may just be a very useful nonconforming extension. (Even if it isn't, that's moot, because it's a behavior that programmers will likely have to turn off to get real code running.) > or n>3 means that a compiler is free to assume that p[i] never aliases > the same int as q[j], regardless of the value of i and j. I suspect that > optimizations which take advantage of that assumption, and will > therefore cause unexpected results when that assumption is violated, are > far more likely to be an issue than implementations which support > run-time bounds checking. Given that this is in a gray are and that C programs can do stuff like that, it would be irresponsible to have that useful optimization on by default. I would not recompile, say, a Linux distro, with that optimization on in the global CFLAGS that is passed to every package. :)
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Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Joe Wright <joewwright@comcast.net> - 2011-11-21 16:25 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-21 14:03 -0800
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2011-11-21 17:45 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Ark <akhasin@macroexpressions.com> - 2011-11-21 21:19 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-11-21 22:06 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Ark <akhasin@macroexpressions.com> - 2011-11-22 03:07 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-22 06:51 -0500
Re: an instance of an object (was: Size of an arraylist in bytes) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-21 21:54 -0800
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2011-11-22 01:49 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Ark <akhasin@macroexpressions.com> - 2011-11-22 03:17 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-22 00:48 -0800
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2011-11-23 05:16 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-22 16:49 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2011-11-23 09:30 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-22 00:07 -0800
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-22 00:24 -0800
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-25 05:06 -0800
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-01-25 12:15 -0800
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-31 18:49 -0800
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-02-01 13:53 -0800
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-02-01 18:53 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-02-01 20:06 -0800
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-02-01 21:40 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2012-02-02 03:45 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-02-01 20:14 -0800
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-02-01 23:14 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 18:38 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2012-02-03 16:32 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-03 11:57 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-02-03 20:07 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2012-02-04 22:35 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-04 18:43 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-02-05 01:50 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-04 21:37 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-02-05 14:48 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-05 10:20 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-02-05 16:25 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-05 12:06 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-02-05 19:21 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-02-05 15:29 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-03-08 10:46 -0800
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-02-05 02:39 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-02-05 15:17 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-05 12:06 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-02-05 15:06 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2012-02-07 17:35 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-02-07 19:51 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-02-08 01:14 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-02-05 02:31 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-02-03 21:26 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-02-03 21:31 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-04 06:57 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-02-04 18:32 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-02-05 22:51 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2012-02-04 21:25 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-02-04 17:08 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-03-08 10:52 -0800
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-04 17:32 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-02-05 02:19 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-02-05 09:20 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-05 09:42 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-02-05 16:17 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Zoltan Kocsi <zoltan@bendor.com.au> - 2012-02-05 17:49 +1100
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-02-05 16:48 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-02-05 16:52 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 01:07 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-02-03 11:29 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-02-03 12:42 -0800
lvalue "potentially" designates an object (was Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes) Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-02-04 12:47 -0500
Re: lvalue "potentially" designates an object (was Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes) Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-02-04 18:39 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-02-04 14:46 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-02-03 22:35 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-02-06 00:01 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-02-06 08:46 +0000
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-02-06 23:17 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-02-01 18:34 -0500
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-03-08 10:54 -0800
Re: Size of an arraylist in bytes Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-25 05:00 -0800
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