Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant)

From	MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.arch
Subject	Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant)
References	(1 earlier) <116d89d$27baf$1@paganini.bofh.team> <87ecfcagiw.fsf_-_@debian> <2026Sep1.225146@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <11bpfm8$190ap$1@dont-email.me> <2026Oct27.171414@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
Date	2026-10-27 17:06 +0000
Message-ID	<1793120789-5857@newsgrouper.org> (permalink)

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anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) posted:

> makendo <makendo@makendo.invalid> writes:
> >The case where division is implemented but
> >multiplication is not does not have a name assigned -- it is pretty
> >well known that hardware designers, compiler writers and low-level
> >programmers hate division far more than multiplication, so I doubt
> >if divison-only hardware is even out in the wild for any ISA...
> 
> I don't think that "hate" is the right concept.  Division is costly:

But "lack of division" is also costly !! especially if some future
implementation will have division {which it will} and then you have
no direct means to make the dusty decks fast.

Note to µArchitects, put the instruction in even if you are going to
TRAP to SW emulation. Later on when DIV is implemented it just runs
faster and you had to do nothing (but put it in).

> Costly to implement and it tends to run slowly (although ARM tries
> hard to disprove that part, even on low-end cores like the
> Cortex-A53).

Let me assert that adding IDIV/UDIV is WAY LESS COSTLY than adding 1300
SIMD instructions.

>               And it's not that frequent, which means that if you
> throw lots of hardware at making it fast, the payoff will be small.

Having it perfectly defined is the critical part {bit patterns in,
bit patterns out} then each implementation can choose for itself
whether to put it in or leave it out.

> And because it is slow, various potential use cases avoid it and
> prefer to use shifts or multiplication by the inverse, making it even
> less frequent.

I have considered a x / (2^n) instruction--only a few gates worse than
SRA.

> Even relatively recent architectures like Alpha (1992) and IA-64
> (2001) do not include integer division instructions.

And look at where they are now.

> So I found the inclusion of division in the RISC-V M extension
> surprising.  They then separated them again by defining Zmmul.

RISC-V is like a shotgun with a short barrel and no choke--it just
needs to hit something for its backers to say they hit something.
> 
> - anton

Thread

interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-01 17:00 -0300
  Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-09-01 20:51 +0000
    Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-02 12:28 +0000
    Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) makendo <makendo@makendo.invalid> - 2026-10-27 14:17 +0800
      Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-27 16:14 +0000
        Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-27 17:06 +0000
          Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-27 19:17 +0200
            Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-27 20:59 +0000
            128/64 division (was: interrupt handling latency and weird register use) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-28 08:34 +0000
              Re: 128/64 division (was: interrupt handling latency and weird register use) quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-28 11:10 +0000
          Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-10-27 19:20 +0100
            Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-27 18:49 +0000
            Re: floating point, interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-10-27 20:08 +0000
              Re: floating point, interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2026-10-27 17:44 -0400
              Re: floating point, interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-10-28 12:10 +0000
                Re: floating point, interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-10-28 16:46 +0000
            Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-10-28 12:17 +0000
              Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-28 12:41 +0000
                Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-10-28 19:06 +0000
                Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-10-28 16:39 -0500
          Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-27 18:46 +0000
          Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-10-28 12:33 +0000
            Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-28 15:20 +0000
            Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-28 15:47 +0000
              Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) Josh Vanderhoof <x@y.z> - 2026-10-29 19:25 -0400
                Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-30 00:30 +0000
                Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-10-30 14:01 -0500
                Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) Josh Vanderhoof <x@y.z> - 2026-10-31 01:02 -0400
                Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-10-31 08:44 +0100
                Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-31 15:15 +0000
                Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-11-01 09:02 +0100
                Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-11-04 23:53 -0500
                Unimplemented opcodes via jump tables (was: interrupt handling latency and weird register use) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-31 09:45 +0000
                Re: Unimplemented opcodes via jump tables (was: interrupt handling latency and weird register use) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-31 18:27 +0000
                Re: Unimplemented opcodes via jump tables (was: interrupt handling latency and weird register use) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-10-31 19:10 +0000
                Re: Unimplemented opcodes via jump tables (was: interrupt handling latency and weird register use) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-11-01 16:11 +0000
                Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-10-30 11:50 +0000
            Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-10-28 15:52 -0500
          Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-10-29 16:57 +0000
        Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-10-27 18:45 +0000
        Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-10-27 13:56 -0500
  Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-02 01:43 +0000
  interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2026-09-02 08:11 -0700
    Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-03 02:59 +0000
      Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-03 14:41 +0000
  Re: interrupt handling latency and weird register use (was Re: OT: Epic RISC-V rant) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-03 02:56 +0000

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