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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #235527
| From | James Dow Allen <user4353@newsgrouper.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.folklore.computers, alt.english.usage, alt.usage.english |
| Subject | Re: The Amarna Letters, Hebrew -- wait, which brew? (was: Re: Origin Of Filename ... text and civilization? doomsday?) |
| References | (9 earlier) <2_bmS.2124$yo3.1274@fx03.ams4> <20260903080204.00005b2a@gmail.com> <9qdj9ld4nb32u1ab3cpk6mqihpaljca5cq@4ax.com> <20260903113409.00004e2f@gmail.com> <32ck9ll87farid147usmvt4jnijaobh4jb@4ax.com> |
| Date | 2026-09-04 04:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1788496032-4353@newsgrouper.org> (permalink) |
| Organization | jamesdowallen@gmail.com |
Cross-posted to 3 groups.
Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> posted:
> On Thu, 3 Sep 2026 11:34:09 -0700, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Thu, 03 Sep 2026 14:08:52 -0400
> >Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > "Ilk" isn't common day-to-day vocabulary, but it is something you'd
> >> > say if trying to put on a "literary affect." It's definitely not
> >> > just some- thing the chatbots dredge up.
> >>
> >> I disagree. It's fairly common in political discussions to refer to
> >> some politician "of that ilk". In this county (USA), political
> >> discussions are very common.
In my experience. "of that ilk" in USA is almost always derogatory,
especially when applied to political alignment, e.g.
"racists, MAGA nuts, conspiracy theorists and others of that ilk."
> >
> >Oh, it's for sure not archaic - it's just not daily man-on-the-street
> >vernacular, is all.
>
> Of course it's not common.
>
> Very few people have names the same as the place they live in, and
> most of those that do and would refer to themselves as "of that Ilk"
> live in Scotland.
The duplication of a surname in Great Britain, with or without the "of" is
often associated with a title: the present Prince of Wales' uncle is Charles
Spencer, Earl Spencer (though this may be abbreviated to Charles Earl Spencer?).
I'm probably wrong but when a surname is duplicated in Scotland it
often denotes that the person is the Chief of the same-named Clan (or,
if Master instead of Chief, the chief's oldest son).
Are the following all essentially the same?
- Maurice Buchanan [9th] Chief of Clan Buchanan
- Maurice Buchanan [9th] Chief of Buchanan
- Maurice Buchanan [9th] of Buchanan
- Maurice Buchanan [9th] of That Ilk
The optional ordinal number ("9th" in this example) shows how many prior
Chiefs there were, and emphasizes that the person is a Chief. But would
Chiefdom be implicit from the "of" anyway?
Instead of a Chief, the title-holder might be a Laird.
Of course "of That Ilk" is used only when the Clan or Lairdship has
the same name as the surname.
Sir William Fraser, 6th of Philorth may have been a de facto Chief of Fraser,
but wasn't titled such and thus couldn't abbreviate his suffix to "of that Ilk."
Apologies for all the errors!
(And what has this to do with the Amarna Letters? :-)
James
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