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Re: discharging caps

From Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: discharging caps
Date 2026-09-12 18:38 -0600
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <1184r9p$7aof$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (9 earlier) <117rj6t$14ki7$1@dont-email.me> <117ru7h$18qbt$1@dont-email.me> <117shvo$1fh4o$1@dont-email.me> <117tq9m$1r43u$1@dont-email.me> <1184qla$vna9$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 10/09/2026 7:10 am, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>> On 9/9/26 17:32, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>> On 9/09/2026 10:25 pm, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>>> On 9/9/26 12:44, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 9 Sep 2026 09:51:57 -0000 (UTC), piglet
>>>>>> <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 9/09/2026 5:56 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 9 Sep 2026 03:09:41 +1000, Bill Sloman
>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/09/2026 1:00 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 8 Sep 2026 17:35:24 +1000, Bill Sloman
>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/09/2026 4:52 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Sep 2026 19:33:35 +0100, chrisq
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <syseng@gfsys.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/7/26 16:18, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose we have a box with some big caps inside, for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example 0.2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> farads that run at about 200 volts. When AC power is off,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discharge them for several reasons.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putting, say, a 1K resistor across them dissipates 40 watts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 200 second time constant. It will take many tau before the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gets low enough for people to poke around inside.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The ideal discharger would be a constant-current or even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant-power load, all the way down to zero volts. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be dumb,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not switched by some decision circuit or anything fancy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And of course we need several LEDs as warnings that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing is hot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What sort of design needs 0.2 Farad cap, at 200 volts ?. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working at that level, put in a cheap relay and a rated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heatsink
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wirewound resistor to dump the energy, when the power goes off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheap, and lossless as well. Motor drive inverters often have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> big resistors to brake the motor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John Larkin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lunatic Fringe Electronics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's a 1500 amp laser driver.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The input to our box is DC, from an external power supply.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do want a circuit that's foolproof, that always discharges
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the caps
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but doen't often go up in flames.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A resistor makes an exponential decay which could be a very
>>>>>>>>>>>>> long time
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to get down to safe levels.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But a resistor plus an inductor could give a critically damped
>>>>>>>>>>>> decay,
>>>>>>>>>>>> which would be quite a bit faster. I don't know enough about
>>>>>>>>>>>> the circuit
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be prepared to try to work out how much inductance you'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> need, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> you clearly can't be bothered.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Won't be bothered.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought the group might like a circuit design problem once
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> while, a break from politics.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But you don't do circuit design, and this sort of question
>>>>>>>>>>>> makes it
>>>>>>>>>>>> obvious why you don't.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The inductor suggestion is hilarious. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's elementary circuit theory, which you should have been
>>>>>>>>>> taught and I
>>>>>>>>>> had to read about.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you discharge a capacitor through a resistor, the voltage decays
>>>>>>>>>> exponentially. If you put an inductor in series with the
>>>>>>>>>> resistor the
>>>>>>>>>> voltage decay is a more complicated function of time. If you
>>>>>>>>>> chose the
>>>>>>>>>> resistance and the inductance to create a critically damped
>>>>>>>>>> circuit, the
>>>>>>>>>> voltage across the capacitor will eventually decay more rapidly
>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>> you'd see with just the resistor.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Try reading about Laplace transforms. That's a pretty hilarious
>>>>>>>>>> suggestion to direct at you, but you are the butt of the joke.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Oh, RLC circuits are no mystery.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What's funny about the suggestion is the size of the inductor it
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> need.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which you haven't worked out. I spent a few minutes last night
>>>>>>>> trying to
>>>>>>>> work out what I could buy off the shelf from element-14 (the
>>>>>>>> Australian
>>>>>>>> branch of Newark) but their web-site has turned cranky in recent
>>>>>>>> months.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The value of the inductance isn't fixed - that and the resistor
>>>>>>>> can be
>>>>>>>> be chosen to get a critically damped LCR, and I figured that I'd
>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>> playing with an inductor I could buy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You might end up with a non-progressively wound air-cored toroid.
>>>>>>>> With a
>>>>>>>> 0.2F capacitor the parallel capacitance of the inductor isn't
>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>> be an issue, and the winding resistance could be your damping
>>>>>>>> resistor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4kJ is a fair bit of energy, but you can get copper quite hot
>>>>>>>> before it
>>>>>>>> explodes. It wouldn't stay hot for long.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven’t calculated what ballpark inductance might be required but
>>>>>>> is air
>>>>>>> core even feasible for that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it were about the size of a truck maybe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can estimate the inductance in your head. To discharge 0.2F in,
>>>>>> say 100 seconds, you need 500 ohms. That would of course be the tau of
>>>>>> an exponential decay. Adding an inductor would crisp that up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> R*C = 100 seconds so we want L/R to be in that ballpark.
>>>>
>>>> 100 seconds is a lot too long from a safety point of view
>>>>
>>>>>> So L is around 50,000 H.
>>>>
>>>> If you start at the wrong end.
>>>>
>>>>>> Check Digikey for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Critical damping happens when the expression for the impedance of
>>>>> the series RLC has two identical roots. This happens when L = R^2C/4,
>>>>> near enough, so L should be 12.5 kH.
>>>>
>>>> You can vary both L and R. A much shorter time constant means a much
>>>> smaller inductor
>>>>
>>>> I dug out my copy of Grover and thought about a 5H air-cored inductor.
>>>>
>>>> 5H - a 1 sec time constant - would be practicable - but big. You'd
>>>> need a great deal of copper wire to make it work.
>>>>
>>>> It might be worth thinking about an iron-cored inductor. We are
>>>> looking at a fairly slow event so the current induced in the iron
>>>> would be just one more dissipation mode.
>>>>
>>>> 0.5H might work. The time constant of 0.32 sec means that your 4kJ
>>>> looks like 13kW while it is dissipating, but it would be being
>>>> dissipated in what could be a fairly substantial resistor which
>>>> wouldn't warm up much and would have time to cool off.
>>>>
>>>>> With the initial voltage 200V, it will need to briefly store just
>>>>> short of 600 J. That doesn't look like a practical solution.
>>>>
>>>> Why not? Air-cored coils can store a lot of energy. If you put a lot
>>>> of current through the turns the mechanical forces eventually rip them
>>>> apart, but that's a very different regime.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because an air-core 12.5 kH inductor is *big*.
>>
>> As I managed to work out, after an unfortunate slip of the mind.
>>
>> 12.5KH is much bigger inductance than you would want or need. 100sec to
>> discharge a capacitor is much too long.
>>
>> 5H and and 1sec makes much more sense but the air-cored inductor would
>> still be impractically large.
>>
>> A carbonyl iron core might work
>>
>> https://www.rf-microwave.com/resources/products_attachments/67aa26a4a6d8c.pdf
>>
>> would need 16000 turns of 0.5mm OD copper wire to get to 5H. That's
>> about 34 layers of wire about 2600 metres long, and the series
>> resistance would be 230R, which is too high.
>>
>> 2.5mm OD wire might work, but that's only 100 tuns per layer, and 160
>> layers would over-fill the winding space.
>>
>> A bigger core could accommodate more turns of thicker wire, but that
>> supplier doesn't do one.
>>
>> An iron tape core would offer more nH per root turn. They are
>> commercially available and in larger sizes
>>
>> https://www.transmart.net/current-transformer-cores.html
>>
>> but the web-site isn't all that transparent, and clearly aimed at
>> sophisticated users.
> 
> You ignore simple rule of thumb: energy is more efficiently stored
> in air.  So to get energy storage needed for critical
> damping you need inductor as big or bigger than air cored
> inductor.  You need core because otherwise winding resistance
> is likely be too big for critical damping.
> 
> It seems that inductor with EI core with the following dimensions
> could satisfy the needs:
> 
> Surface of the central column: 200 cm^2.
> Side of cental column: 14.14 cm.
> Height of cental column: 21.21 cm.
> Width of winding window: 7.07 cm.
> Total height of core: 35.35 cm
> Total width of core: 42.42 cm
> Total volume of core: 16962.87 cm^3
> Weight of the core: 129426.74 g
> Air gap: 1cm
> 
> To get L = 5H needs 1727 turns.  I get 1.43 Ohm as winding resistance.
> 
> So I guess that if one really needed such an inductor it would
> be practical.  But it is bulky.  I am not sure if it is bigger
> than the capacitor bank, but I expect it to be heavier.
> 
Which one of these specs represents the radius of the inductor? That 
would be a great help in visualizing it.

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Thread

discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 08:18 -0700
  Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-07 17:20 +0100
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 09:58 -0700
      Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-07 19:51 +0100
      Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-08 10:27 -0400
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 08:16 -0700
        Re: discharging caps Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-09-08 15:44 +0000
          Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 09:35 -0700
  Re: discharging caps ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> - 2026-09-07 12:26 -0400
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 10:00 -0700
      Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-07 19:32 +0100
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-07 15:38 -0700
      Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-08 07:41 +0000
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 07:57 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-08 15:23 +0000
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 09:38 -0700
              Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-09 10:33 +0000
                Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-11 11:54 +0100
                Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-11 11:01 +0000
                Re: discharging caps Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-09-11 13:59 +0000
  Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-08 04:28 +1000
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 11:59 -0700
  Re: discharging caps chrisq <syseng@gfsys.co.uk> - 2026-09-07 19:33 +0100
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 11:52 -0700
      Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-08 17:35 +1000
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 07:43 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 02:03 +1000
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-08 13:10 -0700
              Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 16:25 +1000
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 08:00 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 03:09 +1000
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-08 12:56 -0700
              Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 16:40 +1000
                Re: discharging caps piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 09:51 +0000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-09 03:44 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 20:57 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-09 14:25 +0200
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-10 00:12 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-09 07:59 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-10 02:27 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-09 10:42 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-10 17:43 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-10 07:10 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-11 00:58 +1000
                Re: discharging caps chrisq <syseng@gfsys.co.uk> - 2026-09-09 17:29 +0100
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-10 03:35 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-10 01:32 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-09 23:10 +0200
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-10 18:38 +1000
                Re: discharging caps antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-13 00:27 +0000
                Re: discharging caps Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-12 18:38 -0600
                Re: discharging caps antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-13 03:11 +0000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-13 07:50 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-13 09:14 -0600
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 02:18 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-13 10:28 -0600
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 01:28 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-13 12:03 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-13 23:54 +0100
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-13 17:12 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 16:05 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-14 08:21 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-15 18:28 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-15 10:23 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-16 18:39 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-16 03:21 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-16 21:16 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 15:59 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-14 08:22 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-15 18:31 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-12 17:59 -0700
                Re: discharging caps wmartin <wwm@wwmartin.net> - 2026-09-12 21:21 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-13 16:27 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-13 16:24 +1000
                Re: discharging caps antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-13 13:36 +0000
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 02:05 +1000
                Re: discharging caps John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 19:40 +0100
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-13 12:08 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 16:18 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-14 08:24 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-15 18:36 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 16:11 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-14 08:56 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-15 18:50 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-10 07:17 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-11 01:02 +1000
      Re: discharging caps chrisq <syseng@gfsys.co.uk> - 2026-09-08 11:19 +0100
        Re: discharging caps chrisq <syseng@gfsys.co.uk> - 2026-09-08 11:33 +0100
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 07:23 -0700
          Re: discharging caps chrisq <syseng@gfsys.co.uk> - 2026-09-08 16:28 +0100
            Re: discharging caps chrisq <syseng@gfsys.co.uk> - 2026-09-08 21:13 +0100
              Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-08 16:06 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 02:10 +1000
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-08 12:59 -0700
              Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 16:45 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-09 03:22 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 21:07 +1000
          Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 02:10 +1000
          Re: discharging caps Buzz McCool <buzz_mccool@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-14 09:44 -0700
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-14 10:15 -0700
      Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-11 16:23 +1000
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-11 07:45 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-12 01:59 +1000
      Re: discharging caps Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2026-09-17 07:19 +0000
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-17 07:46 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2026-09-18 04:54 +0000
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-18 07:57 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-18 15:45 +1000
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-18 08:02 -0700
              Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-19 16:40 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-19 08:48 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-20 16:30 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-20 02:17 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-20 12:30 +0100
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-21 00:52 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-20 08:46 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-21 17:41 +1000
    Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-08 07:46 +0000
      Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 07:26 -0700
  Re: discharging caps Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> - 2026-09-07 21:18 +0200
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 12:36 -0700
      Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-07 22:26 +0100
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 15:14 -0700
          Re: discharging caps "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 20:06 -0400
            Re: discharging caps Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-09-07 19:30 -0700
              Re: discharging caps "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 23:40 -0400
                Re: discharging caps Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-09-07 22:04 -0700
          Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-08 08:45 +0100
            Re: discharging caps John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 11:59 +0100
              Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-08 12:30 +0100
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 07:34 -0700
              Re: discharging caps ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> - 2026-09-08 12:55 -0400
              Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-13 08:15 +0100
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-13 07:41 -0700
                Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-13 17:45 +0100
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 03:53 +1000
                Re: discharging caps John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 19:28 +0100
                Re: discharging caps ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> - 2026-09-13 17:16 -0400
              Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-14 10:20 -0400
                Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-14 15:41 +0100
  Re: discharging caps Carl <carl.ijamesXX@YYverizon.net> - 2026-09-07 21:10 -0400
  Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-08 10:37 -0400
  Re: discharging caps Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-09-08 22:14 -0700
  Re: discharging caps someone <2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com> - 2026-09-09 17:45 +0000
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-09 11:40 -0700
    Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-10 09:55 +0100
      Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-10 07:20 -0700
        Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-11 16:32 +1000
          Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-11 07:46 -0700
        Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-11 17:08 +0100
          Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-11 14:28 -0700
            Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-12 16:24 +1000
              Re: discharging caps John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 10:49 +0100
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-13 01:09 +1000
              Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-12 07:54 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-13 01:20 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-12 09:12 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-13 02:53 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-12 12:43 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-13 16:37 +1000
  Re: discharging caps Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-09-09 15:15 -0700
    Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-10 12:25 +0100
      Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-10 13:09 +0100
        Re: discharging caps John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 14:10 +0100
          Re: discharging caps Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-09-10 11:05 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-09-10 19:12 +0000
  Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-13 14:52 -0400
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-13 12:17 -0700
      Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 16:25 +1000
      Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-14 10:15 -0400
      Re: discharging caps "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 19:53 -0400
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-17 19:15 -0700
          Re: discharging caps "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 23:50 -0400
          Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-18 15:58 +1000
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-18 07:26 -0700
              Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-19 16:26 +1000
            Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-20 11:25 -0400
              Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-20 08:42 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-21 17:54 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-21 10:09 -0700
                Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-21 08:59 -0400
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-21 08:02 -0700
                Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-21 13:00 -0400
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-21 10:12 -0700
                Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-22 10:12 -0400
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-22 08:25 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-23 03:55 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-22 17:36 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-23 16:18 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-23 09:05 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-24 16:36 +1000
                Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-24 08:11 -0400
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-24 07:26 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-25 00:52 +1000
                Re: discharging caps ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> - 2026-09-24 18:40 -0400
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-24 16:22 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-25 16:50 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-25 07:26 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-26 01:32 +1000
                Re: discharging caps antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-26 03:12 +0000
                Re: discharging caps "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-26 00:38 -0400
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-26 07:08 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-27 01:07 +1000
                Re: discharging caps JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-09-26 15:49 +0100
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-28 10:11 -0700
                Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-23 09:24 -0400
                Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-21 17:01 +0000
            Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-20 11:44 -0400
  Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-23 21:42 +0100
    Re: discharging caps Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-23 14:44 -0600
      Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-23 17:51 -0700
      Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-24 10:07 +0100
        Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-24 12:01 +0100
          Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-24 13:59 +0100
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-23 14:16 -0700
      Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-24 10:07 +0100
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-24 11:51 -0700
      Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-24 07:58 -0400
    Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-24 07:54 -0400
      Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-24 13:59 +0100
        Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-24 17:56 -0400
          Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-24 16:27 -0700
          Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-25 09:22 +0100
      Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-24 11:55 -0700
        Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-25 17:09 +1000
          Re: discharging caps Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-25 09:38 +0200
            Re: discharging caps John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2026-09-25 10:59 +0100
              Re: discharging caps Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-25 12:28 +0200
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-25 22:42 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-25 07:38 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-26 01:11 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-25 19:59 +0200
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-26 15:56 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-26 09:24 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-27 16:22 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-27 03:20 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-27 20:55 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-27 07:59 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-28 12:35 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-28 10:15 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-29 17:22 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-26 07:20 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-27 01:26 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-26 22:58 +0200
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-26 16:20 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-27 07:39 +0000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-27 03:29 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-27 13:50 +0000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-27 08:04 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-27 15:16 +0000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-27 08:29 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-28 06:38 +0000
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-28 17:34 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-28 10:17 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-29 17:09 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-28 12:54 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-27 20:14 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-28 16:58 +1000
                Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-26 10:25 -0400

csiph-web