Groups > sci.electronics.design > #747649

Re: discharging caps

From	Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: discharging caps
Date	2026-09-13 16:24 +1000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<1185fji$csfm$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(9 earlier) <117rj6t$14ki7$1@dont-email.me> <117ru7h$18qbt$1@dont-email.me> <117shvo$1fh4o$1@dont-email.me> <117tq9m$1r43u$1@dont-email.me> <1184qla$vna9$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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On 13/09/2026 10:27 am, Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 10/09/2026 7:10 am, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>> On 9/9/26 17:32, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>> On 9/09/2026 10:25 pm, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>>> On 9/9/26 12:44, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 9 Sep 2026 09:51:57 -0000 (UTC), piglet
>>>>>> <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 9/09/2026 5:56 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 9 Sep 2026 03:09:41 +1000, Bill Sloman
>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/09/2026 1:00 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 8 Sep 2026 17:35:24 +1000, Bill Sloman
>>>>>>>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/09/2026 4:52 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Sep 2026 19:33:35 +0100, chrisq
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <syseng@gfsys.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/7/26 16:18, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose we have a box with some big caps inside, for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example 0.2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> farads that run at about 200 volts. When AC power is off,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discharge them for several reasons.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Putting, say, a 1K resistor across them dissipates 40 watts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 200 second time constant. It will take many tau before the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gets low enough for people to poke around inside.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The ideal discharger would be a constant-current or even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constant-power load, all the way down to zero volts. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be dumb,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not switched by some decision circuit or anything fancy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And of course we need several LEDs as warnings that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing is hot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What sort of design needs 0.2 Farad cap, at 200 volts ?. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working at that level, put in a cheap relay and a rated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heatsink
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wirewound resistor to dump the energy, when the power goes off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheap, and lossless as well. Motor drive inverters often have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> big resistors to brake the motor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John Larkin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lunatic Fringe Electronics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's a 1500 amp laser driver.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The input to our box is DC, from an external power supply.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do want a circuit that's foolproof, that always discharges
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the caps
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but doen't often go up in flames.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A resistor makes an exponential decay which could be a very
>>>>>>>>>>>>> long time
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to get down to safe levels.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But a resistor plus an inductor could give a critically damped
>>>>>>>>>>>> decay,
>>>>>>>>>>>> which would be quite a bit faster. I don't know enough about
>>>>>>>>>>>> the circuit
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be prepared to try to work out how much inductance you'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> need, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> you clearly can't be bothered.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Won't be bothered.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought the group might like a circuit design problem once
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> while, a break from politics.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But you don't do circuit design, and this sort of question
>>>>>>>>>>>> makes it
>>>>>>>>>>>> obvious why you don't.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The inductor suggestion is hilarious. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's elementary circuit theory, which you should have been
>>>>>>>>>> taught and I
>>>>>>>>>> had to read about.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you discharge a capacitor through a resistor, the voltage decays
>>>>>>>>>> exponentially. If you put an inductor in series with the
>>>>>>>>>> resistor the
>>>>>>>>>> voltage decay is a more complicated function of time. If you
>>>>>>>>>> chose the
>>>>>>>>>> resistance and the inductance to create a critically damped
>>>>>>>>>> circuit, the
>>>>>>>>>> voltage across the capacitor will eventually decay more rapidly
>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>> you'd see with just the resistor.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Try reading about Laplace transforms. That's a pretty hilarious
>>>>>>>>>> suggestion to direct at you, but you are the butt of the joke.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Oh, RLC circuits are no mystery.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What's funny about the suggestion is the size of the inductor it
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> need.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which you haven't worked out. I spent a few minutes last night
>>>>>>>> trying to
>>>>>>>> work out what I could buy off the shelf from element-14 (the
>>>>>>>> Australian
>>>>>>>> branch of Newark) but their web-site has turned cranky in recent
>>>>>>>> months.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The value of the inductance isn't fixed - that and the resistor
>>>>>>>> can be
>>>>>>>> be chosen to get a critically damped LCR, and I figured that I'd
>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>> playing with an inductor I could buy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You might end up with a non-progressively wound air-cored toroid.
>>>>>>>> With a
>>>>>>>> 0.2F capacitor the parallel capacitance of the inductor isn't
>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>> be an issue, and the winding resistance could be your damping
>>>>>>>> resistor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4kJ is a fair bit of energy, but you can get copper quite hot
>>>>>>>> before it
>>>>>>>> explodes. It wouldn't stay hot for long.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven’t calculated what ballpark inductance might be required but
>>>>>>> is air
>>>>>>> core even feasible for that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it were about the size of a truck maybe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can estimate the inductance in your head. To discharge 0.2F in,
>>>>>> say 100 seconds, you need 500 ohms. That would of course be the tau of
>>>>>> an exponential decay. Adding an inductor would crisp that up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> R*C = 100 seconds so we want L/R to be in that ballpark.
>>>>
>>>> 100 seconds is a lot too long from a safety point of view
>>>>
>>>>>> So L is around 50,000 H.
>>>>
>>>> If you start at the wrong end.
>>>>
>>>>>> Check Digikey for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Critical damping happens when the expression for the impedance of
>>>>> the series RLC has two identical roots. This happens when L = R^2C/4,
>>>>> near enough, so L should be 12.5 kH.
>>>>
>>>> You can vary both L and R. A much shorter time constant means a much
>>>> smaller inductor
>>>>
>>>> I dug out my copy of Grover and thought about a 5H air-cored inductor.
>>>>
>>>> 5H - a 1 sec time constant - would be practicable - but big. You'd
>>>> need a great deal of copper wire to make it work.
>>>>
>>>> It might be worth thinking about an iron-cored inductor. We are
>>>> looking at a fairly slow event so the current induced in the iron
>>>> would be just one more dissipation mode.
>>>>
>>>> 0.5H might work. The time constant of 0.32 sec means that your 4kJ
>>>> looks like 13kW while it is dissipating, but it would be being
>>>> dissipated in what could be a fairly substantial resistor which
>>>> wouldn't warm up much and would have time to cool off.
>>>>
>>>>> With the initial voltage 200V, it will need to briefly store just
>>>>> short of 600 J. That doesn't look like a practical solution.
>>>>
>>>> Why not? Air-cored coils can store a lot of energy. If you put a lot
>>>> of current through the turns the mechanical forces eventually rip them
>>>> apart, but that's a very different regime.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because an air-core 12.5 kH inductor is *big*.
>>
>> As I managed to work out, after an unfortunate slip of the mind.
>>
>> 12.5KH is much bigger inductance than you would want or need. 100sec to
>> discharge a capacitor is much too long.
>>
>> 5H and and 1sec makes much more sense but the air-cored inductor would
>> still be impractically large.
>>
>> A carbonyl iron core might work
>>
>> https://www.rf-microwave.com/resources/products_attachments/67aa26a4a6d8c.pdf
>>
>> would need 16000 turns of 0.5mm OD copper wire to get to 5H. That's
>> about 34 layers of wire about 2600 metres long, and the series
>> resistance would be 230R, which is too high.
>>
>> 2.5mm OD wire might work, but that's only 100 tuns per layer, and 160
>> layers would over-fill the winding space.
>>
>> A bigger core could accommodate more turns of thicker wire, but that
>> supplier doesn't do one.
>>
>> An iron tape core would offer more nH per root turn. They are
>> commercially available and in larger sizes
>>
>> https://www.transmart.net/current-transformer-cores.html
>>
>> but the web-site isn't all that transparent, and clearly aimed at
>> sophisticated users.
> 
> You ignore simple rule of thumb: energy is more efficiently stored
> in air. 

Efficiency is just the ratio of your solution to an ideal solution.

You haven't indicated what you are comparing.

Energy is more simply stored in an iron cored inductor because can get a 
higher inductance in a given volume - the iron eventually saturates 
which complicates life, and the iron would act as a shorted turn if you 
gave it half a chance.

> So to get energy storage needed for critical
> damping you need inductor as big or bigger than air cored
> inductor. 

That doesn't follow.

> You need core because otherwise winding resistance
> is likely be too big for critical damping.

We can all dream of superconducting wire, but all the versions I know of 
stop being super-conducting at a high enough magnetic field. I once got 
to clamber around the Nijmegen University's super-conducting magnet so I 
know that that can be a pretty high field.
> 
> It seems that inductor with EI core with the following dimensions
> could satisfy the needs:
> 
> Surface of the central column: 200 cm^2.
> Side of cental column: 14.14 cm.
> Height of cental column: 21.21 cm.
> Width of winding window: 7.07 cm.
> Total height of core: 35.35 cm
> Total width of core: 42.42 cm
> Total volume of core: 16962.87 cm^3
> Weight of the core: 129426.74 g
> Air gap: 1cm

You haven't specified the core material. My guess is that you would have 
to glom it together from rectangular lumps of ferrite. With that much 
air-gap, the exact material wouldn't matter much.

https://product.tdk.com/

lists a bunch.

> To get L = 5H needs 1727 turns.  I get 1.43 Ohm as winding resistance.
> 
> So I guess that if one really needed such an inductor it would
> be practical.  But it is bulky.  I am not sure if it is bigger
> than the capacitor bank, but I expect it to be heavier.

I'd be more interested in a toroidial core wound out of iron ribbon.

https://megatron.ch/en/produkt-kategorie/ringbandkerne-und-schnittbandkerne/

Even with a high permeability (layered) iron core you'd still need quite 
a few turns to get a Henry or so of inductance.

The data sheets aren't exactly helpful.

https://megatron.ch/infocenter/AMCC_100_Datenblatt.pdf

-- 
Bill Sloman. Sydney

Thread

discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 08:18 -0700
  Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-07 17:20 +0100
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 09:58 -0700
      Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-07 19:51 +0100
      Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-08 10:27 -0400
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 08:16 -0700
        Re: discharging caps Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-09-08 15:44 +0000
          Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 09:35 -0700
  Re: discharging caps ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> - 2026-09-07 12:26 -0400
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 10:00 -0700
      Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-07 19:32 +0100
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-07 15:38 -0700
      Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-08 07:41 +0000
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 07:57 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-08 15:23 +0000
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 09:38 -0700
              Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-09 10:33 +0000
                Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-11 11:54 +0100
                Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-11 11:01 +0000
                Re: discharging caps Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-09-11 13:59 +0000
  Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-08 04:28 +1000
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 11:59 -0700
  Re: discharging caps chrisq <syseng@gfsys.co.uk> - 2026-09-07 19:33 +0100
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 11:52 -0700
      Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-08 17:35 +1000
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 07:43 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 02:03 +1000
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-08 13:10 -0700
              Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 16:25 +1000
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 08:00 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 03:09 +1000
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-08 12:56 -0700
              Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 16:40 +1000
                Re: discharging caps piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 09:51 +0000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-09 03:44 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 20:57 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-09 14:25 +0200
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-10 00:12 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-09 07:59 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-10 02:27 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-09 10:42 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-10 17:43 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-10 07:10 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-11 00:58 +1000
                Re: discharging caps chrisq <syseng@gfsys.co.uk> - 2026-09-09 17:29 +0100
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-10 03:35 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-10 01:32 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-09 23:10 +0200
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-10 18:38 +1000
                Re: discharging caps antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-13 00:27 +0000
                Re: discharging caps Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-12 18:38 -0600
                Re: discharging caps antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-13 03:11 +0000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-13 07:50 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-13 09:14 -0600
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 02:18 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-13 10:28 -0600
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 01:28 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-13 12:03 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-13 23:54 +0100
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-13 17:12 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 16:05 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-14 08:21 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-15 18:28 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-15 10:23 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-16 18:39 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-16 03:21 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-16 21:16 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 15:59 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-14 08:22 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-15 18:31 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-12 17:59 -0700
                Re: discharging caps wmartin <wwm@wwmartin.net> - 2026-09-12 21:21 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-13 16:27 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-13 16:24 +1000
                Re: discharging caps antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-13 13:36 +0000
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 02:05 +1000
                Re: discharging caps John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 19:40 +0100
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-13 12:08 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 16:18 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-14 08:24 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-15 18:36 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 16:11 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-14 08:56 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-15 18:50 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-10 07:17 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-11 01:02 +1000
      Re: discharging caps chrisq <syseng@gfsys.co.uk> - 2026-09-08 11:19 +0100
        Re: discharging caps chrisq <syseng@gfsys.co.uk> - 2026-09-08 11:33 +0100
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 07:23 -0700
          Re: discharging caps chrisq <syseng@gfsys.co.uk> - 2026-09-08 16:28 +0100
            Re: discharging caps chrisq <syseng@gfsys.co.uk> - 2026-09-08 21:13 +0100
              Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-08 16:06 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 02:10 +1000
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-08 12:59 -0700
              Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 16:45 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-09 03:22 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 21:07 +1000
          Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 02:10 +1000
          Re: discharging caps Buzz McCool <buzz_mccool@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-14 09:44 -0700
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-14 10:15 -0700
      Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-11 16:23 +1000
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-11 07:45 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-12 01:59 +1000
      Re: discharging caps Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2026-09-17 07:19 +0000
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-17 07:46 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> - 2026-09-18 04:54 +0000
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-18 07:57 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-18 15:45 +1000
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-18 08:02 -0700
              Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-19 16:40 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-19 08:48 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-20 16:30 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-20 02:17 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-20 12:30 +0100
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-21 00:52 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-20 08:46 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-21 17:41 +1000
    Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-08 07:46 +0000
      Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 07:26 -0700
  Re: discharging caps Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> - 2026-09-07 21:18 +0200
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 12:36 -0700
      Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-07 22:26 +0100
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 15:14 -0700
          Re: discharging caps "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 20:06 -0400
            Re: discharging caps Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-09-07 19:30 -0700
              Re: discharging caps "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-07 23:40 -0400
                Re: discharging caps Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-09-07 22:04 -0700
          Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-08 08:45 +0100
            Re: discharging caps John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 11:59 +0100
              Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-08 12:30 +0100
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 07:34 -0700
              Re: discharging caps ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> - 2026-09-08 12:55 -0400
              Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-13 08:15 +0100
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-13 07:41 -0700
                Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-13 17:45 +0100
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 03:53 +1000
                Re: discharging caps John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2026-09-13 19:28 +0100
                Re: discharging caps ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> - 2026-09-13 17:16 -0400
              Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-14 10:20 -0400
                Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-14 15:41 +0100
  Re: discharging caps Carl <carl.ijamesXX@YYverizon.net> - 2026-09-07 21:10 -0400
  Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-08 10:37 -0400
  Re: discharging caps Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-09-08 22:14 -0700
  Re: discharging caps someone <2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com> - 2026-09-09 17:45 +0000
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-09 11:40 -0700
    Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-10 09:55 +0100
      Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-10 07:20 -0700
        Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-11 16:32 +1000
          Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-11 07:46 -0700
        Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-11 17:08 +0100
          Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-11 14:28 -0700
            Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-12 16:24 +1000
              Re: discharging caps John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2026-09-12 10:49 +0100
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-13 01:09 +1000
              Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-12 07:54 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-13 01:20 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-12 09:12 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-13 02:53 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-12 12:43 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-13 16:37 +1000
  Re: discharging caps Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-09-09 15:15 -0700
    Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-10 12:25 +0100
      Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-10 13:09 +0100
        Re: discharging caps John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 14:10 +0100
          Re: discharging caps Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-09-10 11:05 -0700
          Re: discharging caps Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-09-10 19:12 +0000
  Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-13 14:52 -0400
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-13 12:17 -0700
      Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-14 16:25 +1000
      Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-14 10:15 -0400
      Re: discharging caps "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 19:53 -0400
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-17 19:15 -0700
          Re: discharging caps "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 23:50 -0400
          Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-18 15:58 +1000
            Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-18 07:26 -0700
              Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-19 16:26 +1000
            Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-20 11:25 -0400
              Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-20 08:42 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-21 17:54 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-21 10:09 -0700
                Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-21 08:59 -0400
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-21 08:02 -0700
                Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-21 13:00 -0400
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-21 10:12 -0700
                Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-22 10:12 -0400
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-22 08:25 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-23 03:55 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-22 17:36 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-23 16:18 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-23 09:05 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-24 16:36 +1000
                Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-24 08:11 -0400
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-24 07:26 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-25 00:52 +1000
                Re: discharging caps ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> - 2026-09-24 18:40 -0400
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-24 16:22 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-25 16:50 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-25 07:26 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-26 01:32 +1000
                Re: discharging caps antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-26 03:12 +0000
                Re: discharging caps "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-26 00:38 -0400
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-26 07:08 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-27 01:07 +1000
                Re: discharging caps JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-09-26 15:49 +0100
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-28 10:11 -0700
                Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-23 09:24 -0400
                Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-21 17:01 +0000
            Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-20 11:44 -0400
  Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-23 21:42 +0100
    Re: discharging caps Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-23 14:44 -0600
      Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-23 17:51 -0700
      Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-24 10:07 +0100
        Re: discharging caps Simon Simple <nothanks@nottoday.co.uk> - 2026-09-24 12:01 +0100
          Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-24 13:59 +0100
    Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-23 14:16 -0700
      Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-24 10:07 +0100
        Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-24 11:51 -0700
      Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-24 07:58 -0400
    Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-24 07:54 -0400
      Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-24 13:59 +0100
        Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-24 17:56 -0400
          Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-24 16:27 -0700
          Re: discharging caps liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-25 09:22 +0100
      Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-24 11:55 -0700
        Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-25 17:09 +1000
          Re: discharging caps Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-25 09:38 +0200
            Re: discharging caps John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2026-09-25 10:59 +0100
              Re: discharging caps Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-25 12:28 +0200
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-25 22:42 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-25 07:38 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-26 01:11 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-25 19:59 +0200
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-26 15:56 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-26 09:24 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-27 16:22 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-27 03:20 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-27 20:55 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-27 07:59 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-28 12:35 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-28 10:15 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-29 17:22 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-26 07:20 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-27 01:26 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-26 22:58 +0200
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-26 16:20 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-27 07:39 +0000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-27 03:29 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-27 13:50 +0000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-27 08:04 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-27 15:16 +0000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-27 08:29 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-28 06:38 +0000
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-28 17:34 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-28 10:17 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-29 17:09 +1000
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-28 12:54 +1000
                Re: discharging caps john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-27 20:14 -0700
                Re: discharging caps Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-28 16:58 +1000
                Re: discharging caps legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-09-26 10:25 -0400

csiph-web