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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #671513
| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics.relativity, sci.math |
| Subject | OpenGL is dead. Apple said bye bye / Wayland Compositor (Was: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL) |
| Date | 2026-07-21 00:24 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <113m77f$56ca$1@solani.org> (permalink) |
| References | (5 earlier) <113m147$1frvv$1@dont-email.me> <113m3no$5496$1@solani.org> <113m45s$1gup3$1@dont-email.me> <113m4bi$1gvs1$1@dont-email.me> <113m6gm$561a$1@solani.org> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
Hi,
Apple officially deprecated OpenGL and
OpenGL ES back in macOS 10.14 (Mojave) in
2018 and iOS 12, sunsetting native
support in favor of Metal.
And then in the Windows and Linux world,
for surface management, there is Wayland
Compositor. But new GPUs that share system
memory, also help here.
Open-Source Drivers (amdgpu & mesa):
Unlike NVIDIA's historical proprietary
hurdles, AMD's graphics drivers are fully
open-source and built directly into
the Linux kernel and Mesa.
Native GBM Support: AMD's driver stack
natively and cleanly implements GBM
(Generic Buffer Management) and DRM/KMS,
which is the exact standard modern
Wayland compositors (like GNOME/Mutter,
KDE/KWin, Sway, and Hyprland) rely on
to allocate buffers and manage displays.
Unified Memory (APU Advantage): Because
an AMD APU shares system RAM between
the CPU and the integrated GPU, zero-copy
buffer sharing under Wayland is
exceptionally efficient.
Bye
Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
>
> Hi,
>
> I am developing agains WebGPU / WGSL.
> And overview of WebGPU / WGSL is found here:
>
> https://github.com/webgpu/webgpufundamentals
>
> There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL.
> imageAtomicAdd is from WebGL / GLSL.
>
> These are two different things:
>
> WebGPU / WGSL : Wrapper for Vulcan, Direct 12, or Metal
> WebGL / GLSL : Wrapper for OpenGL
>
> Chris M. Thomasson schrieb:
>> On 7/20/2026 2:32 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>> On 7/20/2026 2:25 PM, Mild Shock wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL.
>>>> The website WebGPU fundamentals is on
>>>> GitHub. I did a search here:
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/webgpu/webgpufundamentals
>>>>
>>>> In Java I can use Doug Leas queue.
>>>> In WebGPU / WGSL I will mostlikely
>>>> adopt Dmitry Vyukov , for a first stab.
>>>>
>>>> Who is Doug lea?
>>>>
>>>> He wrote Concurrent Programming in
>>>> Java: Design Principles and Patterns
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Lea
>>>
>>> A futex:
>>>
>>> https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/futex.2.html
>>>
>>> For a compute shader? Afaict, no need for it at all. Actually, strive
>>> to avoid any atomic RMW! It can be done, but if you really need it:
>>>
>>> imageAtomicAdd is a damn good one for accumulation buffers.
>>>
>>> An example from some of my compute shader code:
>>>
>>> void add_hit(ct_plane2d plane, vec2 p, vec3 weight)
>>> {
>>> vec2 uv = ct_plane2d_unproject(plane, p);
>>> ivec2 px = ivec2(uv * u_resolution);
>>>
>>> if (px.x >= 0 && px.x < int(u_resolution.x) &&
>>> px.y >= 0 && px.y < int(u_resolution.y))
>>> {
>>> imageAtomicAdd(accum_r, px, weight.r);
>>> imageAtomicAdd(accum_g, px, weight.g);
>>> imageAtomicAdd(accum_b, px, weight.b);
>>> imageAtomicAdd(accum_hits, px, 1.0f);
>>> }
>>> }
>>>
>>> [...]
>>
>> You don't really want to "wait" for anything in a compute shader. If
>> you must use CAS use it as a state machine. Not a damn loop. If you
>> can manage it.
>
Back to sci.physics.relativity | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM] (Was: Paul Tarau versus Mr. Taskmanager, who would win? [A PDP-11 Humunkulus from 1979]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-19 11:53 +0200
Corr.: Re: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM] (Was: Paul Tarau versus Mr. Taskmanager, who would win? [A PDP-11 Humunkulus from 1979]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-19 11:55 +0200
Re: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM] (Was: Paul Tarau versus Mr. Taskmanager, who would win? [A PDP-11 Humunkulus from 1979]) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-19 14:04 -0700
Re: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM] (Was: Paul Tarau versus Mr. Taskmanager, who would win? [A PDP-11 Humunkulus from 1979]) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-19 14:07 -0700
Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov (Was: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 08:31 +0200
Re: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov (Was: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM]) Romelio Balakhonsky <lrel@lao.ru> - 2026-07-20 10:07 +0000
The Cache Identity Crisis by Micro Penis (Re: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 13:51 +0200
Just RTFM the RDNA 3.5 specs! [GPU Cache Lines] (Was: The Cache Identity Crisis by Micro Penis) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 14:09 +0200
The large memory tax: ECC RAM (Was: Just RTFM the RDNA 3.5 specs! [GPU Cache Lines]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 14:22 +0200
Friendly Reminder: GPU 10x more performant than CPU (Re: Just RTFM the RDNA 3.5 specs! [GPU Cache Lines]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 00:40 +0200
Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU (Re: Friendly Reminder: GPU 10x more performant than CPU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 00:57 +0200
Like WebAssembly before it, WebGPU has "escaped" the browser. (Re: Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU (Re: Friendly Reminder: GPU 10x more performant than CPU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 01:07 +0200
Re: Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU (Re: Friendly Reminder: GPU 10x more performant than CPU) Will Bakshandaev <bev@lwesi.ru> - 2026-07-21 14:33 +0000
http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint [Teaching Micro Penis Vilage Idiot] (Was: Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 22:41 +0200
If you are paranoid you can use Falco [Agentic AI] (Re: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 22:57 +0200
What would an EMACs guru say [Windows Recall] (Was: If you are paranoid you can use Falco [Agentic AI]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 23:33 +0200
Re: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint [Teaching Micro Penis Vilage Idiot] (Was: Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU) Hants Baibikov <vi@bi.ru> - 2026-07-21 21:51 +0000
Re: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint [Teaching Micro Penis Vilage Idiot] (Was: Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU) Pascual Talbaev <ps@laalapa.ru> - 2026-07-21 22:02 +0000
Re: The Cache Identity Crisis by Micro Penis (Re: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov) Jeiker Makulov <rmkru@eeeamu.ru> - 2026-07-20 16:18 +0000
L1,..,Ln caches are located on the CPU AND on the GPU (Was: The Cache Identity Crisis by Micro Penis) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 19:33 +0200
GPU Cache Hierarchy: Understanding L1, L2, and VRAM (Re: L1,..,Ln caches are located on the CPU AND on the GPU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 19:42 +0200
Re: GPU Cache Hierarchy: Understanding L1, L2, and VRAM (Re: L1,..,Ln caches are located on the CPU AND on the GPU) Zackee Mulatov <azauv@omtla.ru> - 2026-07-20 19:09 +0000
Well thats good, co-location, onto the same processor die (Was: GPU Cache Hierarchy: Understanding L1, L2, and VRAM) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 22:02 +0200
Where is micro penis mental error? (Re: Well thats good, co-location, onto the same processor die) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 22:07 +0200
Re: Well thats good, co-location, onto the same processor die (Was: GPU Cache Hierarchy: Understanding L1, L2, and VRAM) Hermis Molochkov <me@olech.ru> - 2026-07-20 22:27 +0000
Re: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov (Was: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM]) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 13:40 -0700
I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL (Was: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 23:25 +0200
Re: I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL (Was: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 14:32 -0700
Re: I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL (Was: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 14:35 -0700
There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL (Was: I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 00:12 +0200
OpenGL is dead. Apple said bye bye / Wayland Compositor (Was: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 00:24 +0200
Re: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL (Was: I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 16:15 -0700
Flogging a Dead Horse, OpenGL is EOL (Was: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 01:24 +0200
imageAtomicAdd trivial, Dmitry Vyukov requires capacity (Re: Flogging a Dead Horse, OpenGL is EOL (Was: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 01:32 +0200
capacity = 2^n for some n / systolic system (Was: imageAtomicAdd trivial, Dmitry Vyukov requires capacity) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 01:37 +0200
Source of the benchmark for DmitryVyukov (Re: capacity = 2^n for some n / systolic system) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 01:45 +0200
Re: imageAtomicAdd trivial, Dmitry Vyukov requires capacity (Re: Flogging a Dead Horse, OpenGL is EOL (Was: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 17:00 -0700
I never used OpenGL Version 4.2 and later (Re: imageAtomicAdd trivial, Dmitry Vyukov requires capacity) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 08:49 +0200
Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms (Was: I never used OpenGL Version 4.2 and later) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 08:59 +0200
Why MIMD is interesting for pi-WAM? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 09:16 +0200
Re: Why MIMD is interesting for pi-WAM? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 00:32 -0700
Re: Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms (Was: I never used OpenGL Version 4.2 and later) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 00:42 -0700
You still don't understand "budget" [Rossy Boy slower than Micro Penis] (Was: Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 10:13 +0200
Go on Rossy Boy, ask more stupid questions (Was: You still don't understand "budget" [Rossy Boy slower than Micro Penis]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 10:17 +0200
Need to be Einstein to understand Giga Lips (Was: Go on Rossy Boy, ask more stupid questions) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 10:22 +0200
Marketing invents Gucci Bag AI Laptops (Was: Need to be Einstein to understand Giga Lips) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 10:43 +0200
Re: Go on Rossy Boy, ask more stupid questions (Was: You still don't understand "budget" [Rossy Boy slower than Micro Penis]) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 08:59 -0700
Rossy Boy says I am a crazy frothing lunatic (Was: Go on Rossy Boy, ask more stupid questions) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 22:27 +0200
Re: Rossy Boy says I am a crazy frothing lunatic (Was: Go on Rossy Boy, ask more stupid questions) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 13:52 -0700
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