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Groups > comp.lang.c > #400255
| From | cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) |
| Date | 2026-06-27 01:52 +0000 |
| Organization | PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC |
| Message-ID | <111naco$ka2$1@reader1.panix.com> (permalink) |
| References | <1106o9f$3b6c7$1@dont-email.me> <111gkgm$2vhih$1@dont-email.me> <111j3ej$3n1$1@reader1.panix.com> <111jnmp$3tni8$1@dont-email.me> |
In article <111jnmp$3tni8$1@dont-email.me>,
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>On 25/06/2026 13:29, Dan Cross wrote:
>> In article <111gkgm$2vhih$1@dont-email.me>,
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>>> On 24/06/2026 12:47, Dan Cross wrote:
>>>>[snip]
>> Again, not something I was commenting on. Low(er) volume !=
>> obsolete.
>
>OK. I have already accepted that "obsolete" was an exaggeration. More
>appropriate would be "not suitable for new designs".
Something approximately 16550-shaped will be in essentially
every new x86 SoC, because there's basically no incentive to
change: modern variants support DMA, speeds in the MBAUD, are
not tied to x86 programmed IO, and are fine for consoles,
communication between disparate IPs on a board, and so on.
I get that you don't think this series is suitable for embedded
use, and that's fine: don't use it if you you don't want to in
microcontroller applications. But you're using your experience
in that domain to extrapolate and make a value judgement that
doesn't follow in a different domain.
>>> Assuming you are correct (and I have no reason to doubt it, but have not
>>> checked independently) that modern x86 SoCs have 16550 UARTs, then they
>>> are by definition not obsolete. But in pretty much all other devices,
>>> built-in UARTs are not 16550 compatible because there are no benefits in
>>> doing that, while alternative designs are significantly better (in
>>> various possible ways).
>>
>> There are things I do not like about the 8250-series UARTs, but
>> I do not know what criteria you are using to judge the relative
>> merits of the 16550 versus alternatives. Given that you don't
>> use them, one wonders what your basis for comparison is, as
>> well.
>
>I already said that I /had/ used one, as specific external chip, on a
>board. Admittedly that was a long time ago.
Yes, a long time ago: my statement was about the present, as was
your judgement.
>But regardless of how much or how little I have used them, I am entirely
>capable of looking at a datasheet and judging the features a device has
>or does not have. I can look at the way a peripheral is connected, and
>the kind of databus it supports, the kind of inputs and outputs it has,
>the registers it has, and everything else. That's an important part of
>the job I do. The idea that I would have to have /used/ a device to be
>able to compare it to other related devices is, frankly, bizarre.
The DW APB from Synopsis is common and I mentioned it at least
twice before Scott did, but you don't seem at all familiar with
it; it's pretty common.
>> [snip]
>> I just checked and it looks like ST ships PL011's in a bunch of
>> Cortex-M class parts.
>
>Have you a reference for those?
>[snip]
Actually, I think I was just wrong; the device I was thinking of
that used the PL011 off the shelf from ST was the ARM926 based
chip you mentioned: it's old, and they don't have them in their
Cortex-M offerings.
The RPi2040 and Zynq boards seem to have PL011s, but are much
lower volume.
>> Of course, there are a ton of ARM
>> microcontrollers, but if you reread Scott's message (again) he
>> mentions mircoprocessors, not specificially uctlr's.
>
>And if you re-read Scott's message, you'll see there's been a dozen
>posts since then - mentioning other related things. We have moved on
>from there.
Yes, all of which seemed to be based on an incorrect reading of,
and follow ups to, his.
>> [snip]
>> term% uname -a
>> OpenBSD rv64.local 7.9 GENERIC.MP#5 riscv64
>> term% dmesg | grep 16550
>> com0 at simplebus0: dw16550
>> term%
>
>That is very interesting, and somewhat unexpected. Thanks for the
>example. Where is this riscv core from?
That is from a JH7110 SoC in a StarFive VisionFive2 SBC. I use
those things for little utility machines around the house (DHCP,
DNS, etc).
>>> I know both Motorola and Zilog
>>> produced stand-alone UART chips, and I know Motorola (then Freescale,
>>> now part of NXP) have made a countless number of processors and
>>> microcontrollers with built-in UARTs that are not 16550 compatible.
>>
>> I don't know what the latter has to do with the former, or the
>> larger discussion. You seem to be discussing something that I
>> never said or implied.
>
>(As a general point, not everything people write is an immediate direct
>response to what someone else wrote - nor is it necessarily disputing
>what they wrote. People add extra information, anecdotes,
>clarifications, questions, and digressions. Several times you have said
>my comments were irrelevant, or denied saying or implying the point you
>think I am disputing. My posts are not a series of attacks on what I
>imagine you said. While it is entirely possible that I misunderstand or
>misread something someone says, and respond to that misunderstood point,
>usually if I write something that does not appear to be a direct
>response to a previous point, it is not a direct response to /any/ point
>- real or imagined. Conversations would quickly get boring if they
>never wander a little from previous points.)
Ok, fair points. I conress I find it somewhat difficult to
follow your exact line of discussion becuase it jumps between
seemingly-unrelated points.
>> [snip]
>> No, not really.
>>
>> Perhaps in the uctlr world that is true, but in that world
>> workloads tend to be fixed and predictible; in the world of
>> large systems, things are far more dynamic. Interrupts can, and
>> do, get lost; FIFOs get full; data can get corrupted; flow
>> control and synchronization between endpoints in a
>> communications protocol is useful.
>
>I do appreciate that on "big" systems things are more dynamic and
>unpredictable compared to many microcontroller systems. And yes, things
>can get lost or corrupted - that is true in communications in
>microcontroller systems too. As the Mythbuster's tee-shirt says,
>failure is always an option. You almost always want some kind of
>control, synchronisation, error checking, and retry mechanism. You
>usually have several of these, at different levels of the system from
>the hardware, through low-level drivers or interfaces, and up to
>high-level control.
>
>But yes, really - you /can/ handle thousands of interrupts per second on
>Linux systems if you want to.
Of course. But eventually, if you saturate the system enough,
something has to give. That's when data in flight can get lost.
>I've happily passed packets through Linux
>systems at high speeds, without failures. My current system has a
>microcontroller connected to a Linux SOM. My focus is on the
>microcontroller software, but amongst other things I have Python code on
>the PC sending UDP telegrams via the SOM (with a USB to Ethernet dongle)
>to the microcontroller. I run about 2,000+ transactions a second,
>without failures - where a transaction means the Linux SOM getting a
>packet in, routing it out to the microcontroller, getting a reply back,
>and routing that towards the PC. In the background, the SOM is
>continuously bzipping and bunzipping a big file, just to have it working
>on something. How many interrupts per second do you think that is?
No idea. About eight years ago, on a 192 Xeon core system, with
256GB of RAM and a 200Gbps NIC plus about 16TB of NVMe, I
regularly saw ~250k interrupts/sec across the fabric in the
steady-state, bursting up to a million or so.
>Of course there are other patterns of interrupts that are more stressful
>than the ones I have there. But then, I am running just a single core
>SoC here, and the speed bottlenecks are mostly in the Python test code.
>And I have done nothing towards improving the latencies or anything else
>- this is a bog standard Debian ARM installation.
>
>> Perhaps that doesn't matter for your use cases, and you've never
>> needed it; but don't extrapolate to other use cases you have no
>> experience with.
>
>I have worked on systems where we have locked interrupts and programs to
>particular cores (of a 4 core SoC) to minimise jitter, with real-time
>extensions in the kernel. Admittedly there were not many packets
>handled in and out every millisecond, but the millisecond tick needed to
>be within about 1% jitter.
So you're optimizing for latency, not throughput. Ok.
>Of course there are vast combinations of hardware and requirements that
>I have /not/ worked with. But I have seen enough to know that you can
>do a great deal with Linux even without careful tuning - and even more
>with tuning. Thousands of interrupts per second is peanuts to a modern
>Linux system - big or small. Tens or hundreds of thousands of
>interrupts per second - then you are pushing it, and will want to
>re-think things a bit. (My understanding is that for very fast network
>cards on big systems, you dedicate a core to the task and using polling
>rather than interrupts to avoid context switches. But that is
>definitely outside my experience.)
>
>And certainly it is harder to do high frequency operations on Linux, and
>on microprocessors, than on microcontrollers. Context switches are
>massively more demanding, and you have little details like "security"
>that are a different world on a multi-user system than on a
>microcontroller. On one 500 MHz microcontroller I did some testing with
>an RTOS doing round-robin context switches at 1 MHz, taking about 10% of
>the processor capacity. I don't think you'd get far with a jiffy rate
>of 1 MHz on any Linux system, big or small. And I have also had a
>system where I did bit-banging of a 115200 baud UART with 4x
>oversampling. That's 460,800 timer interrupts per second - on a
>microcontroller running with a 18.432 MHz clock. 40 clocks per
>interrupt, and time to spare for the rest of the application.
That, frankly, seems kind of hard to believe: the math just does
not add up, even assuming no wait states for access to e.g.
SRAM and single-cycle memory access times, with an instruction
dispatched per cycle; did you just, like, NEVER touch memory or
more than 2 or 3 registers in that path? Was the internal CPU
frequency 18MHz, or was that a reference oscillator?
>>> Throughput is usually not an issue, but accurate timing is hard to
>>> achieve. It is not without reason that many embedded systems have a
>>> Linux SOM for networking and high-level decisions, and microcontrollers
>>> for the fast reaction and deterministic control stuff. (Many SoC's
>>> targetting industrial embedded Linux have microcontrollers in the SoC
>>> itself.) And it is also fair to say that if you want to have demanding
>>> serial port usage on a general-purpose OS, you want a decent, modern
>>> UART rather than an old-fashioned 16550.
>>
>> Again, you haven't specified what's "old-fashioned" about it, or
>> what makes alternatives superior; on modern systems, this is not
>> your father's 8250. Modern SoCs support DMA and MMIO accesses
>> for UARTs and speeds up to 3MBAUD or more, even if the registers
>> are the same 'ol 16550 registers since the 486 era (with some
>> extensions, of course).
>
>Well, to be fair it depends on what you want to do with the UART - and
>my bias is towards industrial systems. I guess the biggest want an
>RS-485 driver line - when doing faster communication, that is an
>essential feature. (While I have never had the dubious pleasure of
>implementing Profibus DP, it runs at 12 Mbps on RS-485.) I like better
>control of FIFOs and triggers, for both interrupts and DMA. I have
>occasionally had need of 9 bit characters. Sending break characters is
>important in some protocols, like LIN. Automatic detection of frame
>start characters can significantly reduce the load on the rest of the
>system. Many modern full-featured UARTs have additional features like
>swapping pin polarity (great for when people wire up RS-485 buses
>incorrectly) or Rx/Tx pins, IrDA support, Smartcard support, Manchester
>encoding and other things that could reasonably also be done in hardware
>outside the UART.
I think the DW part I mentioned does, basically, all of those
thngs. I don't know about swapping Rx/Tx pins; I suspect that'd
be a function of the pin mux on the parts I'm most familiar
with.
>And of course there are different balances that can be achieved between
>features and power usage, and die space.
>
>Usually most UARTs are usable for most purposes, but some are definitely
>more convenient and better suited than others for offloading work.
>
>> Beyond that, you're correct that many modern SoCs have embedded
>> microcontrollers capable of real-time response; yay. Using one
>> just to avoid flow control over a serial protocol seems like
>> going to extremes to avoid a simple thing. As I mentioned, the
>> DW part even does CTS/RTS HW flow control automatically, without
>> software intervention.
>
>I would not pick a UART to /avoid/ hardware flow control support - but
>it is not a feature I have seen as useful since the days of dial-up
>modems. XON/XOFF style of software flow control is completely absent
>from anything I have been involved in. Of course there this software
>synchronisation and control, but it is at a higher level.
Correction: it's not a feature that is usefulf or _your use
cases_. Again, I urge caution in making assumptions about other
use cases based on that.
- Dan C.
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this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 17:49 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 18:16 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 18:24 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 00:28 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 08:56 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 10:26 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 09:10 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 11:34 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-09 12:25 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 12:31 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 13:43 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 13:53 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 00:02 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 08:55 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 00:00 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 09:06 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 00:34 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:37 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 11:40 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:01 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-22 13:42 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-22 22:38 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-23 14:40 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 02:04 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 04:42 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:02 -0400
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 12:18 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 23:45 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 13:55 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 23:56 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 21:52 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 21:55 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 22:05 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 06:03 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 00:24 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:07 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 16:47 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 02:49 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 19:52 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 03:57 +0000
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Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-21 16:30 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-22 14:56 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-22 12:23 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-10 14:56 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 13:54 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 23:47 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 21:42 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 06:21 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 00:14 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 00:31 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:15 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-11 21:08 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-13 00:10 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 23:01 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 06:47 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-11 13:27 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-12 01:35 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-13 14:26 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-13 14:32 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 00:45 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-14 13:55 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-16 04:36 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 13:08 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 13:11 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-17 03:11 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 12:13 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-17 23:47 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 20:26 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 07:30 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-18 04:36 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-18 04:38 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 23:03 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 13:42 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-19 22:40 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 16:40 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 02:50 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 19:53 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 03:59 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-21 16:31 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-22 00:59 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-22 14:06 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-22 22:40 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-23 14:41 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 02:05 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 04:36 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-24 12:19 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 21:47 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-25 12:44 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:02 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:16 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 18:41 -0500
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 07:30 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-06-18 03:49 -0500
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 23:06 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 01:20 -0500
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-19 08:56 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 10:42 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 10:18 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 15:29 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 16:18 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 18:07 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-19 18:51 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 21:04 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 19:55 +0000
[OT] Google AI - behavioral analysis (was: [something else]) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-06-20 01:52 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 03:03 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-19 18:50 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-19 13:46 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 15:49 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-19 17:25 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-21 01:42 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-21 12:18 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-21 23:15 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-22 04:33 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-22 10:01 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-22 14:56 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-23 07:25 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-23 15:35 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-23 18:07 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-23 17:12 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-23 21:07 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-23 23:00 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-24 08:32 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-24 21:54 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-24 21:09 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-24 10:48 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-24 10:47 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-24 15:02 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-25 11:29 +0000
NIC interrupt rates (was UART discussion; previously was Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-25 15:31 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-25 19:15 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-25 18:29 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-25 20:52 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-26 14:58 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-26 11:46 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-27 01:57 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-25 22:53 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-27 01:52 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-27 19:46 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-07-01 13:16 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-07-03 17:00 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-27 20:49 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-07-01 13:17 +0000
UARTs (was Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network)) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-27 18:50 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-23 17:39 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-23 21:11 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-24 11:04 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-24 15:27 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-25 11:56 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-25 21:30 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-27 02:22 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-28 18:59 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-07-07 23:19 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-07-08 14:52 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-07-08 20:56 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-24 15:51 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-23 14:44 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-23 22:30 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-23 22:48 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-24 12:18 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-24 22:00 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-24 20:09 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-25 00:25 +0300
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-25 12:00 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-25 15:37 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) pa@see.signature.invalid (Pierre Asselin) - 2026-06-24 21:21 +0000
Time from official time-services (was Re: ...some arbitrary subject...) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-06-28 00:15 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 16:31 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 17:50 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-19 18:54 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 19:58 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 21:15 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 22:09 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 03:00 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 10:33 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 19:04 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-19 18:55 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 21:07 +0100
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-20 13:53 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-06-20 19:25 -0400
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-19 22:49 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 18:06 -0500
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-19 06:59 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 14:47 -0500
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-19 22:47 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-20 14:02 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 02:21 -0700
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 09:59 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 00:26 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-06-09 21:21 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-10 12:28 +0000
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-06-11 07:24 +0200
Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-06-14 14:44 +0200
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