Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network)

From	cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c, comp.os.plan9
Subject	Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network)
Followup-To	comp.os.plan9
Date	2026-06-10 12:28 +0000
Organization	PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID	<110bl9e$nt1$1@reader1.panix.com> (permalink)
References	<1106o9f$3b6c7$1@dont-email.me> <20260609141644.458@kylheku.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

Followups directed to: comp.os.plan9

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[Followup-to: comp.os.plan9]

In article <20260609141644.458@kylheku.com>,
Kaz Kylheku  <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> wrote:
>On 2026-06-08, fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> wrote:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAzUoizwnXM
>>
>> i dint watched it whole but it comes to my mind that those socket 
>> communication indeed should be probably made using 
>> fopen/fread/fwrite/fgetc/fputc
>
>That's how it is in the Plan 9 operating system. It takes the
>"everything is a file" paradigm that Unix started on. Unix diverged
>from that paradigm in implementing new things like networking.

That is actually how Unix networking was done initially, cf RFC
681 or the MIT CHAOS implementation; the mechanism for the
latter was to use `namei` in the kernel to open a "network
device" that implemented NCP ("/dev/net") and then exploit a
hack where extra data in the pathname could be passed to the
device's `open` entry point in the `cdevsw`.

The problem was that this wasn't very flexible and opened up all
kinds of problems with respect to how the namespace is managed,
what kind of protocol you wanted: what does it mean if you alias
a name via `link`?  Etc.

Plan 9 fixes this by having a different file-based interface
between a program and the network stack in the kernel.  The
observation is that sockets are accessed via something that
looks an awful lot like a file descriptor (which is itself just
a small integer; internally this is an index into a table), but
they exist in a wholly different namespace that is disconnected
from the file namespace.

The Plan 9 authors observed that there's no reason that that
must be the case, and so while on Unix the model was "everything
is a file" (not true, of course), on Plan 9, it is, "everything
is a file system": that is, devices expose a small hierarchy of
files, which together expose the device's interface.  Of course,
"device" is generic here and includes pseudo-devices; one may
think of the network stack as a device, but so is the window
system, your email inbox, and so on.  Note that we speak of
these as "files" but they don't actually exist on a storage
device, and there is no taxonomy of block and character devices
as there is on Unix.  Rather, files are just named resources
that are mounted into the file name hierarchy as seen by some
process: on Plan 9, file namespaces (as seen by `ls` and so on)
are per-process (group), and `mount` is unprivileged and always
available to a program.  Thus, "files" may refer to something
on a storage device somewhere, or they may refer to a device, or
they may refer to an IPC endpoint created by a user program.

So for networking, the kernel models protocols as pseudo-devices
that it calls "protocol devices".  These are mounted into the
process namespace, canonically on `/net`, so that we have
`/net/tcp` and so on.  If I want to create a new TCP connection,
I can open, `/net/tcp/clone`; this creates a new connection
object in the kernel, which causes a new, numbered directory to
spring into existence under `/net/tcp/$n$`.  That has `ctl` and
`data` files under it; I can connect to a remote machine by
`echo`ing data into the `ctl` file; reading and writing the
`data` files receives and send data on the connection.   If I
`close` the data file (and nothing else is holding a reference
to the connection) then the connection is closed, and the
connection object in the kernel reclaimed, and the directory
removed.  There's a library routine to do this dance for you,
called `dial`; it takes a string argument, something like:
`dial("tcp!some.host.name!service");` and returns a file
descriptor or error, but an astute reader will see that it is
possible to create a shell script that creates TCP connections
with no changes to the shell.

Another interesting aspect of the design: Plan 9 uses a simple
protocol called "9P" to share file systems over a network; to
use some remote machine's resources, I can import them (over 9P)
into the namespace of my local system and just
open/read/write/close them.

This composes in interesting ways: Given some remote machine, I
can import its network stack into my own namespace, and make (or
receive) connections from (and to), but all running on a
different computer.  Similarly, `/proc` is a filesystem that I
can import; so I can debug or trace a program running on a
remote system, but run the debugger locally; all without an
elaborate "remote debugging" protocol.

More information is available in the original papers, that are
well worth a tread:

http://9p.io/sys/doc/9.html
http://9p.io/sys/doc/names.html
http://9p.io/sys/doc/net/net.html
http://9p.io/sys/doc/auth.html

(The auth one is particularly interesting.)

>> i was doing only basics of socket programming anver liked it and 
>> remember almost nothing - it is becouse i dont liek stupid things
>> and those sockets looks stupid
>>
>> i guess using this fopen it would be much better..
>
>"Using fopen" is better is basically "using strings is better"
>in disguise. When you use fopen to open a network client or server
>connection, all the connection parameters have to be encoded into
>a character string, instead of binary structures.
>
>That makes some things easy, such as binding to networking from a new
>programming language (no "FFI" required, just buffered file I/O and
>string munging).
>
>The strings are inefficient, though; they have to be formatted
>and parsed. They lack type safety. You can put wrong values
>into a binary address structure, but in a string you can cause
>a syntax error. And worse, injection security holes and whatnot.

See above.  Trying to pack everything into a single file name
passed to `fopen` (or `open`) isn't a good abstraction, but
there is little materially different between creating binary
data structures like `sockaddr_in` or `sockaddr_in6`, or
composing a network address in a string that is passed to a
library routine.  In most cases, we use things like symbolic
host names and textual port numbers that have to be parsed and
resolved anyway.  In all cases, the input data needs to be
validated by both the stack and the programmer who creates the
data structures.

The more interesting thing is how the system models the
protocols and the interface it provides.

None of this has to do with C, except that Plan 9 was written in
a dialect of C (the early work predated the ANSI standard, they
made extensions to the language, and in a few places it is
incompatible: the type promotion rules for arithmetic, for
instance).

        - Dan C.

Thread

this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 17:49 +0200
  Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 18:16 +0200
    Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 18:24 +0200
    Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 00:28 +0000
      Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 08:56 +0200
        Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 10:26 +0200
        Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 09:10 +0000
          Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 11:34 +0200
            Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-09 12:25 +0200
              Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 12:31 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 13:43 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 13:53 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 00:02 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 08:55 +0200
            Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 00:00 +0000
              Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 09:06 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 00:34 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:37 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 11:40 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:01 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-22 13:42 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-22 22:38 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-23 14:40 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 02:04 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 04:42 -0700
          Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:02 -0400
            Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 12:18 +0200
            Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 23:45 +0000
          Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 13:55 -0700
            Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 23:56 +0000
              Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 21:52 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 21:55 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 22:05 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 06:03 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 00:24 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:07 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 16:47 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 02:49 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 19:52 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 03:57 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-20 15:49 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-21 16:30 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-22 14:56 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-22 12:23 -0700
              Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-10 14:56 +0000
      Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 13:54 -0700
        Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 23:47 +0000
          Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 21:42 -0700
            Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 06:21 +0000
              Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 00:14 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 00:31 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:15 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-11 21:08 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-13 00:10 +0000
          Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 23:01 -0700
            Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 06:47 +0000
              Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-11 13:27 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-12 01:35 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-13 14:26 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-13 14:32 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 00:45 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-14 13:55 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-16 04:36 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 13:08 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 13:11 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-17 03:11 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 12:13 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-17 23:47 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 20:26 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 07:30 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-18 04:36 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-18 04:38 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 23:03 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 13:42 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-19 22:40 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 16:40 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 02:50 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 19:53 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 03:59 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-21 16:31 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-22 00:59 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-22 14:06 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-22 22:40 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-23 14:41 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 02:05 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 04:36 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-24 12:19 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 21:47 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-25 12:44 -0700
      Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:02 -0700
        Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:16 +0000
    Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 18:41 -0500
      Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 07:30 +0000
        Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-06-18 03:49 -0500
          Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 23:06 +0000
            Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 01:20 -0500
              Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-19 08:56 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 10:42 +0100
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 10:18 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 15:29 +0100
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 16:18 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 18:07 +0100
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-19 18:51 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 21:04 +0100
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 19:55 +0000
                [OT] Google AI - behavioral analysis (was: [something else]) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-06-20 01:52 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 03:03 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-19 18:50 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-19 13:46 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 15:49 +0100
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-19 17:25 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-21 01:42 +0300
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-21 12:18 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-21 23:15 +0300
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-22 04:33 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-22 10:01 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-22 14:56 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-23 07:25 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-23 15:35 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-23 18:07 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-23 17:12 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-23 21:07 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-23 23:00 +0300
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-24 08:32 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-24 21:54 +0300
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-24 21:09 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-24 10:48 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-24 10:47 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-24 15:02 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-25 11:29 +0000
                NIC interrupt rates (was UART discussion; previously was Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-25 15:31 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-25 19:15 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-25 18:29 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-25 20:52 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-26 14:58 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-26 11:46 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-27 01:57 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-25 22:53 +0300
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-27 01:52 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-27 19:46 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-07-01 13:16 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-07-03 17:00 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-27 20:49 +0300
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-07-01 13:17 +0000
                UARTs (was Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network)) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-27 18:50 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-23 17:39 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-23 21:11 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-24 11:04 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-24 15:27 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-25 11:56 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-25 21:30 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-27 02:22 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-28 18:59 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-07-07 23:19 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-07-08 14:52 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-07-08 20:56 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-24 15:51 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-06-23 14:44 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-23 22:30 +0300
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-23 22:48 +0300
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-24 12:18 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-24 22:00 +0300
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-24 20:09 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-25 00:25 +0300
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-25 12:00 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-25 15:37 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) pa@see.signature.invalid (Pierre Asselin) - 2026-06-24 21:21 +0000
                Time from official time-services (was Re: ...some arbitrary subject...) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-06-28 00:15 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 16:31 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 17:50 +0100
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-19 18:54 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 19:58 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 21:15 +0100
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 22:09 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 03:00 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 10:33 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 19:04 +0100
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-19 18:55 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-06-19 21:07 +0100
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-20 13:53 +0200
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-06-20 19:25 -0400
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-19 22:49 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 18:06 -0500
              Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-19 06:59 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 14:47 -0500
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-19 22:47 +0000
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-06-20 14:02 +0200
              Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 02:21 -0700
                Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-19 09:59 +0000
  Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 00:26 +0000
  Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-06-09 21:21 +0000
    Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-06-10 12:28 +0000
  Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-06-11 07:24 +0200
  Re: this guy talks about fopen (and im thinking about fopen for network) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-06-14 14:44 +0200

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