Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.theory > #141327
| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory, comp.ai.philosophy, sci.logic, sci.math.symbolic, sci.math, sci.lang |
| Subject | Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings |
| Date | 2026-05-24 14:21 -0700 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <10uvq4s$re6d$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <10u23sf$2nvvg$2@dont-email.me> <10u25j7$2pr11$1@dont-email.me> <10u2607$2nvvf$1@dont-email.me> <10u27a1$2qfle$1@dont-email.me> <10uvdo4$naou$1@dont-email.me> |
Cross-posted to 6 groups.
On 5/24/2026 10:49 AM, Richard Damon wrote: > olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 5/13/2026 10:39 AM, dart200 wrote: >>> On 5/13/26 8:32 AM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 5/13/2026 10:03 AM, dart200 wrote: >>>>> On 5/12/26 1:52 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 5/12/2026 1:03 PM, dart200 wrote: >>>>>>> On 5/12/26 6:59 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>> Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge >>>>>>>> that can be expressed in language can be expressed as >>>>>>>> relations between finite strings. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I propose that a concrete counter example to this these >>>>>>>> is categorically impossible. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> DD halts and it's not outside the body of knowledge that can be >>>>>>> expressed in language >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Can Carol correctly answer “no” to this (yes/no) question? >>>>>> E C R Hehner. Objective and Subjective Specifications >>>>>> WST Workshop on Termination, Oxford. 2018 July 18. >>>>>> See https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/OSS.pdf >>>>>> >>>>>> As input DD to proof theoretic halt prover HHH it specifies >>>>>> infinitely recursive simulation this PTS requires input DD >>>>>> to HHH to be rejected as not being grounded in a truth value. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is not the case for the proof theoretic halt prover pair >>>>>> HHH1/DD. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> therefore the claim that the input cannot be grounded in a truth >>>>> value is not categorically true. it's only HHH that cannot output the >>>>> truth. >>>>> >>>> >>>> DD as input to HHH fails to be grounded in a semantic value >>>> this is merely rejected as erroneous input to HHH thus does >>>> not derive any unfathomable enigma. >>>> >>>>> therefore we're stuck at the same place as the consensus: no >>>>> universal decider, only partial ones >>>>> >>>> >>>> In the same way that we have no universal truth predicate: >>>> Is "What the Fuck" true or false? >>>> >>> >>> HH1 responds to the input DD quite accurately. the underlying question >>> of whether DD halts or not is simply _not_ garbage. >>> >>> ur analogy does not capture the nature of these context-dependent >>> computations, no matter how many times u repeat it polcott. the question >>> itself is fine, it's just the nature of computing makes computing it >>> somewhat context-dependent >>> >> >> Can Carol correctly answer “no” to this (yes/no) question? >> (PhD Computer Science professor Eric Hehner:2018) > > Straw man, showing that you are just diverting the question, because you > KNOW that you don’t know what you are talking about. > > Your problem is your world doesn’t understand the categorical difference > between a will-full actor like “Carol”, and a deterministic actor like a > program, such as HH or DD. > > Perhaps your problem is that you sold your ability to be will-full, or are > just so stupid as to have lost that capability, > >> >> When we understand that the linguistic context of who is asked the >> question is an aspect of the full meaning of this question then we have >> a (yes/no) question that is defined to have no correct (yes/no) answer. > > Yes, it can impact the answer to a SUBJECTIVE question which include a > will-full actor. > > It can not impact the answer to an OBJECTIVE question, for which the > behavior of a program given defined input definitely is. > > Al your comparison shows is that you are too stupid to understand that if > HH is a program, then its answer to any question is predetermined by its > coding, and thus your arguement just shows your stupidity. >> >> When anyone else besides Carol is asked this question the linguistic >> context changes making it a different question. This seems isomorphic >> to the above halting problem proof question. >> >> E C R Hehner. Objective and Subjective Specifications >> WST Workshop on Termination, Oxford. 2018 July 18. >> See https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/OSS.pdf >> >> Even to this date thousands of years later no one yet >> even agrees the the Liar Paradox simply is not a truth >> bearer. This seems to me that short-circuits are hard-wired >> into human brains. It is like a PhD math professor that >> does not understand that 2 + 3 = 5, and instead considers >> 1st grade arithmetic to be an unfathomable enigma. >> > > Which agains shows your stupidity, as what you claim is un agreed to is > standard knowledge in most of the field. I suppose part of the problem is > you don’t even understand how the field of logic and philosophy is built > and divided, thinking everything is part of everything which is just part > of your insanity. > > The “Halting Problem” is in the field of Computability theory which is a > Formal Logic system with DEFINED rules, including the definition of what is > “Truth”, and you aren’t allowed to change that by using ideas not part of > that Formal System. > > It seems, you just don’t know what any of that means, but just stupidly lie > claiming you are smarter than the people in the field, when it is just that > you are too stupid to understand your stupidity. > > > Shit man... You are right!
Back to comp.theory | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 08:59 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-12 11:03 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 15:52 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-13 08:03 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-13 10:32 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-13 08:39 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-13 11:02 -0500
yes another possible ct-thesis hole? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-13 09:45 -0700
yet another possible ct-thesis hole??? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-13 09:49 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2026-05-24 17:49 +0000
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-05-24 14:21 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2026-05-24 17:34 +0000
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-24 13:16 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings phoenix <j63840576@gmail.com> - 2026-05-24 12:56 -0600
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-24 14:05 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings phoenix <j63840576@gmail.com> - 2026-05-24 13:11 -0600
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-24 14:16 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-24 14:36 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings phoenix <j63840576@gmail.com> - 2026-05-24 15:45 -0600
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-24 23:26 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-25 09:18 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2026-06-23 11:36 +0000
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-05-26 10:56 +0300
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 09:01 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 08:37 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 10:50 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 09:31 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 12:05 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 22:54 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-05-27 10:21 +0300
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-06-14 13:52 +0100
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-14 08:12 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-15 20:50 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 13:13 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-19 17:42 -0600
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 19:15 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-19 19:31 -0600
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-06-20 10:46 +0300
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 09:37 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-06-21 12:32 +0300
csiph-web