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Groups > comp.theory > #141202
| From | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory, comp.ai.philosophy, sci.logic, sci.math.symbolic, sci.math, sci.lang |
| Subject | Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings |
| Date | 2026-05-13 11:02 -0500 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <10u27a1$2qfle$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (1 earlier) <10tvq1k$25c6m$1@dont-email.me> <10u03uk$28eis$1@dont-email.me> <10u23sf$2nvvg$2@dont-email.me> <10u25j7$2pr11$1@dont-email.me> <10u2607$2nvvf$1@dont-email.me> |
Cross-posted to 6 groups.
On 5/13/2026 10:39 AM, dart200 wrote: > On 5/13/26 8:32 AM, olcott wrote: >> On 5/13/2026 10:03 AM, dart200 wrote: >>> On 5/12/26 1:52 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 5/12/2026 1:03 PM, dart200 wrote: >>>>> On 5/12/26 6:59 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge >>>>>> that can be expressed in language can be expressed as >>>>>> relations between finite strings. >>>>>> >>>>>> I propose that a concrete counter example to this these >>>>>> is categorically impossible. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> DD halts and it's not outside the body of knowledge that can be >>>>> expressed in language >>>>> >>>> >>>> Can Carol correctly answer “no” to this (yes/no) question? >>>> E C R Hehner. Objective and Subjective Specifications >>>> WST Workshop on Termination, Oxford. 2018 July 18. >>>> See https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/OSS.pdf >>>> >>>> As input DD to proof theoretic halt prover HHH it specifies >>>> infinitely recursive simulation this PTS requires input DD >>>> to HHH to be rejected as not being grounded in a truth value. >>>> >>>> This is not the case for the proof theoretic halt prover pair >>>> HHH1/DD. >>>> >>> >>> therefore the claim that the input cannot be grounded in a truth >>> value is not categorically true. it's only HHH that cannot output the >>> truth. >>> >> >> DD as input to HHH fails to be grounded in a semantic value >> this is merely rejected as erroneous input to HHH thus does >> not derive any unfathomable enigma. >> >>> therefore we're stuck at the same place as the consensus: no >>> universal decider, only partial ones >>> >> >> In the same way that we have no universal truth predicate: >> Is "What the Fuck" true or false? >> > > HH1 responds to the input DD quite accurately. the underlying question > of whether DD halts or not is simply _not_ garbage. > > ur analogy does not capture the nature of these context-dependent > computations, no matter how many times u repeat it polcott. the question > itself is fine, it's just the nature of computing makes computing it > somewhat context-dependent > Can Carol correctly answer “no” to this (yes/no) question? (PhD Computer Science professor Eric Hehner:2018) When we understand that the linguistic context of who is asked the question is an aspect of the full meaning of this question then we have a (yes/no) question that is defined to have no correct (yes/no) answer. When anyone else besides Carol is asked this question the linguistic context changes making it a different question. This seems isomorphic to the above halting problem proof question. E C R Hehner. Objective and Subjective Specifications WST Workshop on Termination, Oxford. 2018 July 18. See https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/OSS.pdf Even to this date thousands of years later no one yet even agrees the the Liar Paradox simply is not a truth bearer. This seems to me that short-circuits are hard-wired into human brains. It is like a PhD math professor that does not understand that 2 + 3 = 5, and instead considers 1st grade arithmetic to be an unfathomable enigma. -- Copyright 2026 Olcott My 28 year goal has been to make "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language" reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge. The complete structure of this system is now defined. This required establishing a new foundation
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Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 08:59 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-12 11:03 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 15:52 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-13 08:03 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-13 10:32 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-13 08:39 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-13 11:02 -0500
yes another possible ct-thesis hole? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-13 09:45 -0700
yet another possible ct-thesis hole??? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-13 09:49 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2026-05-24 17:49 +0000
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-05-24 14:21 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2026-05-24 17:34 +0000
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-24 13:16 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings phoenix <j63840576@gmail.com> - 2026-05-24 12:56 -0600
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-24 14:05 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings phoenix <j63840576@gmail.com> - 2026-05-24 13:11 -0600
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-24 14:16 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-24 14:36 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings phoenix <j63840576@gmail.com> - 2026-05-24 15:45 -0600
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-24 23:26 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-25 09:18 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2026-06-23 11:36 +0000
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-05-26 10:56 +0300
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 09:01 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 08:37 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 10:50 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 09:31 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 12:05 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 22:54 -0700
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-05-27 10:21 +0300
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-06-14 13:52 +0100
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-14 08:12 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-15 20:50 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 13:13 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-19 17:42 -0600
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 19:15 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-19 19:31 -0600
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-06-20 10:46 +0300
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 09:37 -0500
Re: Olcott thesis: Every element of the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language can be expressed as relations between finite strings Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-06-21 12:32 +0300
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