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Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much

From Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups sci.logic, sci.math, comp.theory, comp.ai.philosophy
Subject Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much
Date 2026-01-22 10:21 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <10ksmlt$2rf95$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (26 earlier) <10klh4e$ecm9$1@dont-email.me> <10knjks$1426t$1@dont-email.me> <10kohu3$1f51g$1@dont-email.me> <10kq4p9$1vmg3$1@dont-email.me> <10kqr0g$27agi$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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On 21/01/2026 17:22, olcott wrote:
> On 1/21/2026 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 20/01/2026 20:35, olcott wrote:
>>> On 1/20/2026 3:58 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 19/01/2026 17:03, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 1/19/2026 2:19 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 18/01/2026 15:28, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/18/2026 5:27 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 17/01/2026 16:47, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/17/2026 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 16/01/2026 17:38, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/16/2026 3:32 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15/01/2026 22:30, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/15/2026 3:34 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/01/2026 21:32, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/14/2026 3:01 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/01/2026 16:31, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/13/2026 3:13 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/01/2026 16:32, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/12/2026 4:47 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/01/2026 16:24, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/01/2026 10:13, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/01/2026 17:47, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/10/2026 2:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, that does not follow. If a required result 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot be derived by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appying a finite string transformation then the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it it is uncomputable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right. Outside the scope of computation. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Requiring anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside the scope of computation is an incorrect 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requirement.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't determine whether the required result is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computable before
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have the requirement.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, it is /in/ scope for computer science... for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the / ology/. Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here uses "computation" to refer to the practice. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You give the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requirement to the /ologist/ who correctly decides 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it is not for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computation because it is not computable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You two so often violently agree; I find it warming 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the heart. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For pracitcal programming it is useful to know what 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is known to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uncomputable in order to avoid wasting time in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attemlpts to do the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impossible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It f-cking nuts that after more than 2000 years
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people still don't understand that self-contradictory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressions: "This sentence is not true" have no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truth value. A smart high school student should have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figured this out 2000 years ago.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Irrelevant. For practical programming that question 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needn't be answered.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The halting problem counter-example input is anchored
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the Liar Paradox. Proof Theoretic Semantics rejects
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those two and Gödel's incompleteness and a bunch more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as merely non-well-founded inputs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For every Turing machine the halting problem counter- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example provably
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not when using Proof Theoretic Semantics grounded
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the specification language. In this case the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pathological input is simply rejected as ungrounded.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then your "Proof Theoretic Semantics" is not useful for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Turing machines. For every Turing machine a counter 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example exists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And so exists a Turing machine that writes the counter 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given a Turing machine as input.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is "not useful" in the same way that ZFC was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "not useful" for addressing Russell's Paradox.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ZF or ZFC is to some extent useful for addressing Russell's 
>>>>>>>>>>>> paradox.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is an example of a set theory where Russell's paradox is 
>>>>>>>>>>>> avoided.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If your "Proof Theretic Semantics" cannot handle the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> existence of
>>>>>>>>>>>> a counter example for every Turing decider then it is not 
>>>>>>>>>>>> usefule
>>>>>>>>>>>> for those who work on practical problems of program 
>>>>>>>>>>>> correctness.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Proof theoretic semantics addresses Gödel Incompleteness
>>>>>>>>>>> for PA in a way similar to the way that ZFC addresses
>>>>>>>>>>> Russell's Paradox in set theory.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not really the same way. Your "Proof theoretic semantics" 
>>>>>>>>>> redefines
>>>>>>>>>> truth and replaces the logic. ZFC is another theory using 
>>>>>>>>>> ordinary
>>>>>>>>>> logic. The problem with the naive set theory is that it is not
>>>>>>>>>> sound for any semantics.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ZFC redefines set theory such that Russell's Paradox cannot arise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, it does not. It is just another exammle of the generic concept
>>>>>>>> of set theory. Essentially the same as ZF but has one additional
>>>>>>>> postulate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ZFC redefines set theory such that Russell's Paradox cannot arise
>>>>>>> and the original set theory is now referred to as naive set theory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ZF and ZFC are not redefinitions. ZF is another theory. It can be
>>>>>> called a "set theory" because its structure is similar to Cnator's
>>>>>> original informal set theory. Cantor did not specify whther a set
>>>>>> must be well-founded but ZF specifies that it must. A set theory
>>>>>> were all sets are well-founded does not have Russell's paradox.
>>>>>
>>>>> ZF is a redefinition in the only sense that matters:
>>>>> it changes the foundational rules so that Russell’s
>>>>> paradox cannot arise.
>>>>
>>>> The only sense that matters is: to give a new meaning to an exsisting
>>>> term. That is OK when the new meaning is only used in a context where
>>>> the old one does not make sense.
>>>>
>>>> What you are trying is to give a new meaning to "true" but preted that
>>>> it still means 'true'.
>>>
>>> True in the standard model of arithmetic using meta-math
>>> has always been misconstrued as true <in> arithmetic
>>
>> No, it hasn't. In the way theories are usually discussed nothing is
>> "ture in arithmetic". Every sentence of a first order theory that
>> can be proven in the theory is true in every model theory. Every
>> sentence of a theory that cannot be proven in the theory is false
>> in some model of the theory.
>>
>>> only because back then proof theoretic semantics did
>>> not exist.
>>
>> Every interpretation of the theory is a definition of semantics.
>>
> 
> Meta‑math relations about numbers don’t exist in PA
> because PA only contains arithmetical relations—addition, 
> multiplication, ordering, primitive‑recursive predicates
> about numbers themselves—while relations that talk about
> PA’s own proofs, syntax, or truth conditions live entirely
> in the meta‑theory;

Methamathematics does not need any other relations between numbers
than what PA has. But relations that map other things to numbers
can be useful for methamathematical purposes.

> so when someone appeals to a Gödel‑style relation like
> “n encodes a proof of this very sentence,” they’re
> invoking a meta‑mathematical predicate that PA cannot
> internalize, which is exactly why your framework draws
> a clean boundary between internal proof‑theoretic truth
> and external model‑theoretic truth.

Anyway, what can be provven that way is true aboout PA. You can deny
the proof but you cannot perform what is meta-provably impossible.

-- 
Mikko

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The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 22:44 -0600
  Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-07 13:49 +0200
    Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-07 05:54 -0600
      Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-08 12:22 +0200
        Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-08 08:22 -0600
          Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-09 11:59 +0200
            Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-09 09:52 -0600
              Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-10 10:23 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 09:47 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 18:19 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 18:13 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 19:35 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 18:52 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 21:03 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 20:22 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 21:34 -0500
                Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 21:24 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 22:32 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-11 07:09 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-11 12:13 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-11 08:18 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-12 12:44 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-12 08:29 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-12 22:19 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 19:25 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-14 22:51 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-15 15:57 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-15 10:54 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-15 11:34 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-15 22:27 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-15 22:03 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 11:46 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-31 01:47 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 20:10 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-13 11:11 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-13 08:27 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-14 09:40 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 11:28 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-15 11:48 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-15 15:04 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-17 12:00 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-15 17:38 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-16 11:17 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-16 08:12 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 11:48 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-16 09:12 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 11:53 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 12:08 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-17 12:25 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-13 08:34 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-13 18:23 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-13 12:50 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-14 14:52 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 10:24 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-14 10:53 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-14 14:55 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-15 11:26 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-14 10:39 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-12 08:32 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-12 22:20 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-13 11:13 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-13 08:31 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-14 11:01 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 13:32 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-15 11:34 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-15 14:30 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-16 11:32 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-16 09:38 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-17 11:53 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-17 08:47 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-17 22:21 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-18 13:27 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-18 07:28 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 12:55 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-19 10:19 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-19 15:00 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-20 11:48 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-21 13:46 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-22 10:30 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-22 12:40 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-23 11:31 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-19 09:03 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-20 11:58 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-20 12:35 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-21 11:03 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-21 09:22 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-22 10:21 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 10:40 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-23 11:13 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-23 04:22 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-24 10:20 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 08:01 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-25 13:19 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 07:24 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 13:27 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 12:33 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 13:40 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 13:10 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 14:57 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 14:09 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 15:47 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 10:47 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-24 10:23 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 08:18 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-25 13:24 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 07:30 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 13:31 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 13:05 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 14:59 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 14:21 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 15:54 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-26 14:55 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-26 09:22 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 11:45 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-26 10:58 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 12:13 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-26 11:28 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-27 10:17 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-27 09:32 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-28 11:54 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 07:49 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-29 11:12 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-29 07:57 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-30 11:34 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 08:35 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-31 10:41 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 09:23 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-02-01 12:28 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-02-01 09:18 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-02-02 09:39 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-31 10:56 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 09:26 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-02-01 12:17 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-27 10:15 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-27 09:29 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-28 11:45 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-27 10:05 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-27 08:48 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-28 11:40 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 09:51 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 09:44 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 12:10 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 11:54 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 14:23 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 13:25 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 14:52 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 14:38 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 17:25 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 16:31 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 19:52 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 19:44 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 13:36 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 13:09 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 14:54 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 14:07 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 15:44 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 20:31 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 11:49 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-26 11:23 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 13:24 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-26 12:43 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 16:58 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-26 16:08 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 17:36 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-26 16:44 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 21:51 -0500
                "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language" olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2026-01-26 21:28 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 18:28 -0800
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-29 04:39 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-11 12:22 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-11 08:23 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-12 12:51 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-12 08:43 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-12 22:22 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-13 10:46 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-13 08:17 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-13 14:31 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-14 09:58 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 13:14 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 13:19 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-15 11:38 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-14 11:04 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 13:35 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-15 11:21 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-15 14:52 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-16 11:21 +0200
                Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 17:19 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 19:35 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 19:03 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 21:03 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 20:20 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 21:33 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 21:18 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 22:30 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 19:05 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 21:03 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 20:09 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 21:33 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability polcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 20:52 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 22:28 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 21:16 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 22:28 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 21:34 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-11 06:31 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-11 08:03 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-11 14:39 +0000
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-11 12:52 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-11 12:12 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-11 21:28 +0000
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-11 15:50 -0600
        Haskell Curry Foundations of Mathematical Logic sense of true in the system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-09 09:47 -0600

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