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Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much

From olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.logic
Subject Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much
Date 2026-01-19 09:03 -0600
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <10klh4e$ecm9$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (21 earlier) <10kfm6j$2e3g0$1@dont-email.me> <10kg7dg$2jtnd$1@dont-email.me> <10kig27$3cj5l$1@dont-email.me> <10kin6f$3f4ne$1@dont-email.me> <10kkpeo$5kml$1@dont-email.me>

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On 1/19/2026 2:19 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 18/01/2026 15:28, olcott wrote:
>> On 1/18/2026 5:27 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 17/01/2026 16:47, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 1/17/2026 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>> On 16/01/2026 17:38, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/16/2026 3:32 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>> On 15/01/2026 22:30, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/15/2026 3:34 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 14/01/2026 21:32, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/14/2026 3:01 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/01/2026 16:31, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/13/2026 3:13 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/01/2026 16:32, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/12/2026 4:47 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/01/2026 16:24, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/01/2026 10:13, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/01/2026 17:47, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/10/2026 2:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, that does not follow. If a required result cannot 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be derived by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appying a finite string transformation then the it it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is uncomputable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right. Outside the scope of computation. Requiring 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside the scope of computation is an incorrect 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requirement.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't determine whether the required result is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computable before
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have the requirement.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, it is /in/ scope for computer science... for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the / ology/. Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here uses "computation" to refer to the practice. You 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requirement to the /ologist/ who correctly decides that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is not for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computation because it is not computable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You two so often violently agree; I find it warming to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the heart. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For pracitcal programming it is useful to know what is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> known to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uncomputable in order to avoid wasting time in attemlpts 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impossible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It f-cking nuts that after more than 2000 years
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people still don't understand that self-contradictory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressions: "This sentence is not true" have no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truth value. A smart high school student should have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figured this out 2000 years ago.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Irrelevant. For practical programming that question needn't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be answered.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The halting problem counter-example input is anchored
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the Liar Paradox. Proof Theoretic Semantics rejects
>>>>>>>>>>>> those two and Gödel's incompleteness and a bunch more
>>>>>>>>>>>> as merely non-well-founded inputs.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For every Turing machine the halting problem counter-example 
>>>>>>>>>>> provably
>>>>>>>>>>> exists.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not when using Proof Theoretic Semantics grounded
>>>>>>>>>> in the specification language. In this case the
>>>>>>>>>> pathological input is simply rejected as ungrounded.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then your "Proof Theoretic Semantics" is not useful for 
>>>>>>>>> discussion of
>>>>>>>>> Turing machines. For every Turing machine a counter example 
>>>>>>>>> exists.
>>>>>>>>> And so exists a Turing machine that writes the counter example 
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> given a Turing machine as input.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is "not useful" in the same way that ZFC was
>>>>>>>> "not useful" for addressing Russell's Paradox.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ZF or ZFC is to some extent useful for addressing Russell's paradox.
>>>>>>> It is an example of a set theory where Russell's paradox is avoided.
>>>>>>> If your "Proof Theretic Semantics" cannot handle the existence of
>>>>>>> a counter example for every Turing decider then it is not usefule
>>>>>>> for those who work on practical problems of program correctness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Proof theoretic semantics addresses Gödel Incompleteness
>>>>>> for PA in a way similar to the way that ZFC addresses
>>>>>> Russell's Paradox in set theory.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not really the same way. Your "Proof theoretic semantics" redefines
>>>>> truth and replaces the logic. ZFC is another theory using ordinary
>>>>> logic. The problem with the naive set theory is that it is not
>>>>> sound for any semantics.
>>>>
>>>> ZFC redefines set theory such that Russell's Paradox cannot arise.
>>>
>>> No, it does not. It is just another exammle of the generic concept
>>> of set theory. Essentially the same as ZF but has one additional
>>> postulate.
>>
>> ZFC redefines set theory such that Russell's Paradox cannot arise
>> and the original set theory is now referred to as naive set theory.
> 
> ZF and ZFC are not redefinitions. ZF is another theory. It can be
> called a "set theory" because its structure is similar to Cnator's
> original informal set theory. Cantor did not specify whther a set
> must be well-founded but ZF specifies that it must. A set theory
> were all sets are well-founded does not have Russell's paradox.
> 

ZF is a redefinition in the only sense that matters:
it changes the foundational rules so that Russell’s
paradox cannot arise.

Naive set theory allowed unrestricted comprehension;
ZF restricts it and adds Foundation. That’s exactly
the same structural move I’m making.

Classical semantics treats every formula as a
truth‑bearer and gets Gödel’s paradox. Proof‑theoretic
semantics restricts truth‑bearers to what PA can classify
and the paradox disappears.

Calling ZF “another theory” instead of a “redefinition”
doesn’t change the fact that it avoids the paradox by
changing the foundations.

>>>> Proof theoretic semantics redefines formal systems such that
>>>> Incompleteness cannot arise. Gödel did not do this himself because
>>>> Proof theoretic semantics did not exist at the time.
>>>
>>> Gödel did not do that because his topic was Peano arithmetic and its
>>> extensions, and more generally ordinary logic.
>>>
>>> Can you can you prove anyting analogous to Gödel's completeness
>>> theorem for your "Proof theoretic semantics"?
> 
> Note that the question is not answered (or otherwise addressed) below.
> 

No, there is no model‑theoretic completeness theorem here,
because there is no model‑theoretic semantics.

The proof‑theoretic analogue is built into the framework:
all valid inferences are derivable by definition.

>> Gödel’s incompleteness arises only because
>> “true in PA” was never an internal notion
>> of PA at all, but a meta‑mathematical notion
>> of truth about PA defined externally through
>> models;
> 
> You have proven neither "only" nor "because".
> 

Gödel’s “true but unprovable” reading of incompleteness
depends on a meta‑mathematical notion of truth about PA,
defined externally via models. If we instead define truth
in PA proof‑theoretically—as provability—then that specific
incompleteness phenomenon does not arise.

>> Once truth is defined internally—by extending
>> PA with a truth predicate so that “true in PA”
>> simply means “derivable from PA’s axioms”—
>> the supposed gap between truth and provability
>> disappears
> 
> But the syntactic incompleteness is still there. Both G and ¬G are
> well-formed formulas of Peano arithmetic but neither is provable.
> The well-formed formula G ∨ ¬G is provable, and so is G → G.

Yes, syntactic incompleteness remains: there are well‑formed
formulas PA neither proves nor refutes. But Gödel’s semantic
incompleteness—the claim that there are true but unprovable
sentences—depends on an external notion of truth that PA does
not contain.

Once truth in PA is defined internally as provability, G
and ¬G are simply not truth‑bearers. The syntactic fact that
they are unprovable does not create a semantic gap, because
“true in PA” no longer means “true in an external model.”

>> With that disappearance PA no longer counts as
>> incomplete, because the statements Gödel identified
>> as “true but unprovable” were never internal truths
>> of PA in the first place, only truths assigned from
>> the outside by the meta‑system.
> 
> It still is syntactically incomplete.
> 

Yes, PA is syntactically incomplete — that’s just the
fact that some formulas are undecided.

But Gödel’s semantic incompleteness, the claim of
“true but unprovable,” depends on an external notion
of truth that PA does not contain.

Once truth in PA is defined internally as provability,
the semantic gap disappears. What remains is only
syntactic incompleteness, which is not the Gödel
phenomenon I’m rejecting.

Thus semantically, G simply becomes not a truth‑bearer
in PA.


-- 
Copyright 2026 Olcott<br><br>

My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
"true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
reliably computable.<br><br>

This required establishing a new foundation<br>

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Thread

The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 22:44 -0600
  Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-07 13:49 +0200
    Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-07 05:54 -0600
      Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-08 12:22 +0200
        Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-08 08:22 -0600
          Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-09 11:59 +0200
            Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-09 09:52 -0600
              Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-10 10:23 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 09:47 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 18:19 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 18:13 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 19:35 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 18:52 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 21:03 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 20:22 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 21:34 -0500
                Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 21:24 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 22:32 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-11 07:09 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-11 12:13 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-11 08:18 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-12 12:44 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-12 08:29 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-12 22:19 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 19:25 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-14 22:51 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-15 15:57 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-15 10:54 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-15 11:34 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-15 22:27 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-15 22:03 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 11:46 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-31 01:47 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 20:10 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-13 11:11 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-13 08:27 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-14 09:40 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 11:28 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-15 11:48 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-15 15:04 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-17 12:00 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-15 17:38 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-16 11:17 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-16 08:12 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 11:48 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-16 09:12 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 11:53 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 12:08 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-17 12:25 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-13 08:34 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-13 18:23 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-13 12:50 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-14 14:52 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 10:24 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-14 10:53 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-14 14:55 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-15 11:26 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-14 10:39 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-12 08:32 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-12 22:20 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-13 11:13 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-13 08:31 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-14 11:01 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 13:32 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-15 11:34 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-15 14:30 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-16 11:32 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-16 09:38 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-17 11:53 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-17 08:47 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-17 22:21 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-18 13:27 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-18 07:28 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 12:55 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-19 10:19 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-19 15:00 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-20 11:48 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-21 13:46 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-22 10:30 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-22 12:40 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-23 11:31 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-19 09:03 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-20 11:58 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-20 12:35 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-21 11:03 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-21 09:22 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-22 10:21 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 10:40 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-23 11:13 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-23 04:22 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-24 10:20 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 08:01 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-25 13:19 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 07:24 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 13:27 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 12:33 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 13:40 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 13:10 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 14:57 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 14:09 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 15:47 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 10:47 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-24 10:23 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 08:18 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-25 13:24 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 07:30 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 13:31 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 13:05 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 14:59 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 14:21 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 15:54 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-26 14:55 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-26 09:22 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 11:45 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-26 10:58 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 12:13 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-26 11:28 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-27 10:17 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-27 09:32 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-28 11:54 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 07:49 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-29 11:12 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-29 07:57 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-30 11:34 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-30 08:35 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-31 10:41 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 09:23 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-02-01 12:28 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-02-01 09:18 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-02-02 09:39 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-31 10:56 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-31 09:26 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-02-01 12:17 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-27 10:15 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-27 09:29 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-28 11:45 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-27 10:05 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-27 08:48 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-28 11:40 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 09:51 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 09:44 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 12:10 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 11:54 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 14:23 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 13:25 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 14:52 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 14:38 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 17:25 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 16:31 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 19:52 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 19:44 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 13:36 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 13:09 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 14:54 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 14:07 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 15:44 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 20:31 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 11:49 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-26 11:23 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 13:24 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-26 12:43 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 16:58 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-26 16:08 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 17:36 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-26 16:44 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 21:51 -0500
                "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language" olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2026-01-26 21:28 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 18:28 -0800
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-29 04:39 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-11 12:22 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-11 08:23 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-12 12:51 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-12 08:43 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-12 22:22 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-13 10:46 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-13 08:17 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-13 14:31 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-14 09:58 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 13:14 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 13:19 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-15 11:38 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-14 11:04 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 13:35 -0600
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-15 11:21 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-15 14:52 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem asks for too much Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-16 11:21 +0200
                Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 17:19 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 19:35 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 19:03 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 21:03 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 20:20 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 21:33 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 21:18 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 22:30 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 19:05 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 21:03 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 20:09 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 21:33 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability polcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 20:52 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 22:28 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 21:16 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 22:28 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 21:34 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-11 06:31 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-11 08:03 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-11 14:39 +0000
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-11 12:52 -0500
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-11 12:12 -0600
                Re: Computation and Undecidability Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-11 21:28 +0000
                Re: Computation and Undecidability olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-11 15:50 -0600
        Haskell Curry Foundations of Mathematical Logic sense of true in the system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-09 09:47 -0600

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