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Groups > comp.lang.prolog > #14642
| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.prolog |
| Subject | How long willl I piss on Bart Demoen (Was: Physics PhDs might never have heard of Quantifier Eliminations) |
| Date | 2025-07-10 18:39 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <104oqco$20u1b$1@solani.org> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <104oaao$20inf$1@solani.org> <104oarl$20j1d$1@solani.org> <104occh$20jqg$1@solani.org> <104ooqo$20stc$1@solani.org> <104oq1c$20toh$1@solani.org> |
Hi, How long willl I piss on Bart Demoen? I don't know, as long as it takes to clean up my cabinet full of ghosts. After that I might do some LogNonsenseTalk bashing again, didn't do a for a long time. But since Paulo Moura was deciple of following Bart Demoen in mobbing, he deserves nothing better. But LogNonsenseTalk is not yet a ghost, not retired yet, still a walking Zombie... LoL Bye Mild Shock schrieb: > Hi, > > But after all these years, Wikipedia still mentions: > > Choice Point Elimination > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Prolog_implementations#Optimizations > > Still the complete moron Bart Demoen, drowning in > Dunning-Kruger syndrom, of incompetent people working > in the wrong domain, accused me of: > > > gives me the feeling that "choice point elimination" is > > something jb coined, and does not belong to traditional > > Prolog implementation terminology. > > So what does Choice Point Elimination mean? > > From compiler optimization I would guess elimination > and avoidance have the similar meaning, whereas I would > prefer elimination. Elimination could mean to eliminate > > an intermediate step. Like in quantifier elimination, > you eliminate something that was already there but you > could somehow get rid of it through some transformation, > > you don't really avoid it. So the Physics PhDs Bart Demoen > which had no education in mathematical logic is no > way excused. He was just exposing the dark side of > > wrong people in wrong places. > > Bye > > Mild Shock schrieb: >> Hi, >> >> I have really interesting ghosts in by cabinet. >> Not only old software, also crazy people like >> Bart Demoen. And the good thing everything is >> >> still available through Google Groups that >> has nicely preserved comp.lang.prolog. According >> Barty Boy the term "Choice Point Elimination" >> >> didn't really exist: >> >> > Anyway, I have no idea what "choice point >> > elimination" is supposed to refer to in literature. >> > >> > Literally, "choice point elimination" should mean >> > something related to: a choicepoint was created >> > some technique eliminates that choice point >> >> https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.prolog/c/qnwD_TEG4xg/m/LMiDtFY1dQIJ >> >> Well he is somehow right if "elimination" is >> interpreted as creating and then destroying. >> But it could also mean preventing the creation >> >> of a choice point. You never know from the >> far of a the flemish / dutch mountains what a >> term means. Even if somebody presents a corpus >> >> resarch as I did. >> >> Bye >> >> Mild Shock schrieb: >>> Hi, >>> >>> There is one thing that currently causes me headaches. >>> So far the Dogelog Player design didn't have a big >>> ping pong from Prolog to Native and back. >>> >>> It has the Main Design with Prolog --> Native, and >>> the 2nd Design with Native --> Prolog. We also managed >>> to do some clause indexing preparation >>> >>> in the Main Design, so we have this separation of concerning >>> currently for first argument indexing: >>> >>> - Computation of Clause Key Value: Prolog >>> The computation of the Key Value of a clause is done >>> at compile time in pure Prolog. There are two strategies, >>> for dynamic predicates the key is directly taken from >>> the first argument of the head. >>> >>> For static predicates the body of the claue is also >>> analyzed, and this can also give a key, like for >>> exaple if the body as a unification X = C, and X >>> appears as first argument, the the key can be taken from C. >>> >>> - Computation of Goal/Head Key Value: Native >>> The clauses are supplied with their Key Value, and >>> Native code does add them with indexing. Or update the >>> index when a clause is removed. >>> >>> The computation of the Key Value of a goal or clause >>> head is done a runtime in Native. And then the lookup >>> is done natively as well. >>> >>> Now I wonder how I can bring multi-argument JIT Indexing >>> from formerly Jekejeke Prolog into the picture, and still >>> have a high degree of 100% Prolog code. Some hurdles: >>> >>> - Clause Key Value on Demand: Native -> Prolog >>> So if I would keep the scheme that Prolog determines the >>> clause Key Values. And if I would do this on demand, >>> I would have a Native -> Prolog call. >>> >>> - Clauses would need decompile: >>> Even if I implement such a Native -> Prolog hook, >>> the problem is Clauses have not the compile time format >>> at runtime. So the my old 100% Prolog code for Clause >>> Key Value will not work, requires first decompilation. >>> >>> - YAP approach: >>> I have an old paper from YAP. For the indexing they >>> are scanning the native clause code. I didn't double >>> check yet what SWI-Prolog (has JIT-ing) or Scryer Prolog >>> (doesn't do it JIT style?). Etc... >>> >>> - What else? >>> >>> Well its not a big headache, but a kind of blocker, >>> before I decide what to do. There are a couple of options >>> to get out of the dilemma, and turn the Prolog systems >>> >>> around, and make it 100% Prolog again. Its like the >>> big beautiful bill by Donald Trump. Make Prolog >>> 100% Prolog again! >>> >>> LoL >>> >>> Bye >>> >>> Mild Shock schrieb: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Most of the libraries and the system are design so >>>> that native is a last resort. So most functionality is >>>> Prolog and in a few instances there is a native call: >>>> >>>> - Main Design: >>>> >>>> Prolog (a lot of it) --> Native (very little) >>>> >>>> This design, concerning the call control flow, is only >>>> broken in the top level, and in very few places, like the >>>> browser and a web server. The top-level is a native entry >>>> >>>> point and it needs to reach into Prolog, and the >>>> libraries library(react) and library(spin) provide call >>>> back facilities for the browser and a web >>>> >>>> server event handlers: >>>> >>>> - 2nd Design: >>>> >>>> Native (top-level, react and spin) --> Prolog >>>> >>>> There is no idea at all that the Prolog system supports >>>> any iterators. I did this in the past. But the Prolog >>>> system gets simpler without the viewpoint that the >>>> >>>> interface should support iterators. SWI-Prolog always >>>> invests heavily to support iterators. Based on the >>>> rather negative experience with formerly Jekejeke Prolog >>>> >>>> we tried to completely avoid any iterator interface. >>>> >>>> Bye >> >
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The Ghosts in my Cabinet: Indexing Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 12:45 +0200
Observed while watching FAIL/REDO ports (Was: The Ghosts in my Cabinet: Indexing) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 12:46 +0200
Shocking Revelation: No eGovernment can trust Prolog! (Was: Observed while watching FAIL/REDO ports) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 13:26 +0200
Easier certification with 100% Prolog Prolog? (Was: Shocking Revelation: No eGovernment can trust Prolog!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 14:05 +0200
Doing a Prolog system without any iterator API (Was: Easier certification with 100% Prolog Prolog?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 14:14 +0200
The headache with JIT indexing: Native -> Prolog (Was: Doing a Prolog system without any iterator API) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 14:40 +0200
Just lets burn another candle for Barty Boy (Was: The headache with JIT indexing: Native -> Prolog) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 18:13 +0200
Physics PhDs might never have heard of Quantifier Eliminations (Re: Just lets burn another candle for Barty Boy) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 18:33 +0200
How long willl I piss on Bart Demoen (Was: Physics PhDs might never have heard of Quantifier Eliminations) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 18:39 +0200
But I shouldn't waste too much time (Was: How long willl I piss on Bart Demoen) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 19:13 +0200
DCG is easily affected (Was: The Ghosts in my Cabinet: Indexing) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-11 09:38 +0200
The headache an eGovernment might get from Prolog (Was: DCG is easily affected) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 15:20 +0200
Wait till they find out about compare/3 (Was: The headache an eGovernment might get from Prolog) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 15:24 +0200
Corr. (Was: Wait till they find out about compare/3) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 15:28 +0200
eGovernements will need AGI to survive (Was: Corr. (Was: Wait till they find out about compare/3)) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 18:41 +0200
Having 2544 issues is probably a bad sign (Re: eGovernements will need AGI to survive) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 18:41 +0200
The Signal Collapse gives us System Uncertainty (Re: Having 2544 issues is probably a bad sign) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 19:02 +0200
Rename GitHub, to TurdPit, and make Amber Heard their CEO (Was: The Signal Collapse gives us System Uncertainty) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 19:52 +0200
Humans are just overwhelmed by computers (Was: eGovernements will need AGI to survive) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-16 18:59 +0200
Fishy 🐟 in Scryer Prolog and SWI-Prolog (Was: Humans are just overwhelmed by computers) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-16 20:08 +0200
So we are essentially all using Trojan Horses 🐎 daily? (Re: Fishy 🐟 in Scryer Prolog and SWI-Prolog) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-17 10:57 +0200
Strudel Rust gives Scryer Frust 💩: Try C+20 Pipes (Was: Fishy 🐟 in Scryer Prolog and SWI-Prolog( Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-25 22:55 +0100
SWI-Prolog as a Test Bed for Copilots (Was: Humans are just overwhelmed by computers) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-20 14:36 +0200
Mathematics currently hates Computer Science because of AI (Re: SWI-Prolog as a Test Bed for Copilots) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-20 15:13 +0200
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