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Just lets burn another candle for Barty Boy (Was: The headache with JIT indexing: Native -> Prolog)

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Hi,

I have really interesting ghosts in by cabinet.
Not only old software, also crazy people like
Bart Demoen. And the good thing everything is

still available through Google Groups that
has nicely preserved comp.lang.prolog. According
Barty Boy the term "Choice Point Elimination"

didn't really exist:

 > Anyway, I have no idea what "choice point
 > elimination" is supposed to refer to in literature.
 >
 > Literally, "choice point elimination" should mean
 > something related to: a choicepoint was created
 > some technique eliminates that choice point

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.prolog/c/qnwD_TEG4xg/m/LMiDtFY1dQIJ

Well he is somehow right if "elimination" is
interpreted as creating and then destroying.
But it could also mean preventing the creation

of a choice point. You never know from the
far of a the flemish / dutch mountains what a
term means. Even if somebody presents a corpus

resarch as I did.

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> There is one thing that currently causes me headaches.
> So far the Dogelog Player design didn't have a big
> ping pong from Prolog to Native and back.
> 
> It has the Main Design with Prolog --> Native, and
> the 2nd Design with Native --> Prolog. We also managed
> to do some clause indexing preparation
> 
> in the Main Design, so we have this separation of concerning
> currently for first argument indexing:
> 
> - Computation of Clause Key Value: Prolog
>    The computation of the Key Value of a clause is done
>    at compile time in pure Prolog. There are two strategies,
>    for dynamic predicates the key is directly taken from
>    the first argument of the head.
> 
>    For static predicates the body of the claue is also
>    analyzed, and this can also give a key, like for
>    exaple if the body as a unification X = C, and X
>    appears as first argument, the the key can be taken from C.
> 
> - Computation of Goal/Head Key Value: Native
>    The clauses are supplied with their Key Value, and
>    Native code does add them with indexing. Or update the
>    index when a clause is removed.
> 
>    The computation of the Key Value of a goal or clause
>    head is done a runtime in Native. And then the lookup
>    is done natively as well.
> 
> Now I wonder how I can bring multi-argument JIT Indexing
> from formerly Jekejeke Prolog into the picture, and still
> have a high degree of 100% Prolog code. Some hurdles:
> 
> - Clause Key Value on Demand: Native -> Prolog
>    So if I would keep the scheme that Prolog determines the
>    clause Key Values. And if I would do this on demand,
>    I would have a Native -> Prolog call.
> 
> - Clauses would need decompile:
>    Even if I implement such a Native -> Prolog hook,
>    the problem is Clauses have not the compile time format
>    at runtime. So the my old 100% Prolog code for Clause
>    Key Value will not work, requires first decompilation.
> 
> - YAP approach:
>    I have an old paper from YAP. For the indexing they
>    are scanning the native clause code. I didn't double
>    check yet what SWI-Prolog (has JIT-ing) or Scryer Prolog
>    (doesn't do it JIT style?). Etc...
> 
> - What else?
> 
> Well its not a big headache, but a kind of blocker,
> before I decide what to do. There are a couple of options
> to get out of the dilemma, and turn the Prolog systems
> 
> around, and make it 100% Prolog again. Its like the
> big beautiful bill by Donald Trump. Make Prolog
> 100% Prolog again!
> 
> LoL
> 
> Bye
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Most of the libraries and the system are design so
>> that native is a last resort. So most functionality is
>> Prolog and in a few instances there is a native call:
>>
>> - Main Design:
>>
>>    Prolog (a lot of it) --> Native (very little)
>>
>> This design, concerning the call control flow, is only
>> broken in the top level, and in very few places, like the
>> browser and a web server. The top-level is a native entry
>>
>> point and it needs to reach into Prolog, and the
>> libraries library(react) and library(spin) provide call
>> back facilities for the browser and a web
>>
>> server event handlers:
>>
>> - 2nd Design:
>>
>>    Native (top-level, react and spin) --> Prolog
>>
>> There is no idea at all that the Prolog system supports
>> any iterators. I did this in the past. But the Prolog
>> system gets simpler without the viewpoint that the
>>
>> interface should support iterators. SWI-Prolog always
>> invests heavily to support iterators. Based on the
>> rather negative experience with formerly Jekejeke Prolog
>>
>> we tried to completely avoid any iterator interface.
>>
>> Bye

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The Ghosts in my Cabinet: Indexing Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 12:45 +0200
  Observed while watching FAIL/REDO ports (Was: The Ghosts in my Cabinet: Indexing) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 12:46 +0200
    Shocking Revelation: No eGovernment can trust Prolog! (Was: Observed while watching FAIL/REDO ports) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 13:26 +0200
      Easier certification with 100% Prolog Prolog? (Was: Shocking Revelation: No eGovernment can trust Prolog!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 14:05 +0200
        Doing a Prolog system without any iterator API (Was: Easier certification with 100% Prolog Prolog?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 14:14 +0200
          The headache with JIT indexing: Native -> Prolog (Was: Doing a Prolog system without any iterator API) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 14:40 +0200
            Just lets burn another candle for Barty Boy (Was: The headache with JIT indexing: Native -> Prolog) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 18:13 +0200
              Physics PhDs might never have heard of Quantifier Eliminations (Re: Just lets burn another candle for Barty Boy) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 18:33 +0200
                How long willl I piss on Bart Demoen (Was: Physics PhDs might never have heard of Quantifier Eliminations) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 18:39 +0200
                But I shouldn't waste too much time (Was: How long willl I piss on Bart Demoen) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 19:13 +0200
  DCG is easily affected (Was: The Ghosts in my Cabinet: Indexing) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-11 09:38 +0200
    The headache an eGovernment might get from Prolog (Was: DCG is easily affected) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 15:20 +0200
      Wait till they find out about compare/3 (Was: The headache an eGovernment might get from Prolog) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 15:24 +0200
        Corr. (Was: Wait till they find out about compare/3) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 15:28 +0200
          eGovernements will need AGI to survive (Was: Corr. (Was: Wait till they find out about compare/3)) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 18:41 +0200
            Having 2544 issues is probably a bad sign (Re: eGovernements will need AGI to survive) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 18:41 +0200
              The Signal Collapse gives us System Uncertainty (Re: Having 2544 issues is probably a bad sign) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 19:02 +0200
                Rename GitHub, to TurdPit, and make Amber Heard their CEO (Was: The Signal Collapse gives us System Uncertainty) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 19:52 +0200
            Humans are just overwhelmed by computers (Was: eGovernements will need AGI to survive) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-16 18:59 +0200
              Fishy 🐟 in Scryer Prolog and SWI-Prolog (Was: Humans are just overwhelmed by computers) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-16 20:08 +0200
                So we are essentially all using Trojan Horses 🐎 daily? (Re: Fishy 🐟 in Scryer Prolog and SWI-Prolog) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-17 10:57 +0200
                Strudel Rust gives Scryer Frust 💩: Try C+20 Pipes (Was: Fishy 🐟 in Scryer Prolog and SWI-Prolog( Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-25 22:55 +0100
              SWI-Prolog as a Test Bed for Copilots (Was: Humans are just overwhelmed by computers) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-20 14:36 +0200
                Mathematics currently hates Computer Science because of AI (Re: SWI-Prolog as a Test Bed for Copilots) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-20 15:13 +0200

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