Re: EU: public DNS resolvers?

From	Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>
References	(2 earlier) <20250616012249.6bd1b1ee.dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> <fed12431d4cf04f0fac7fdc0e8b7566b@dizum.com> <mbaf6rFacpgU3@mid.individual.net> <440498fb20a79aa07dce53754aba3bd8@dizum.com> <20250621101512.7627f3de.dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de>
Subject	Re: EU: public DNS resolvers?
Message-ID	<101d661bdaca533e54f9b88dd7e589ea@dizum.com> (permalink)
Date	2025-06-21 14:25 +0200
Newsgroups	ger.ct
Organization	dizum.com - The Internet Problem Provider

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Dietz Proepper schrieb:

>> Die 3er-Ketten sind ja statistisch gesehen auch ein Witz. Deshalb
>> sollte man mehr ...
>
>Ja. Sicher. Tätschel. Und damit Du nicht wieder "Nebelkerzen"
>behauptest geschätzter Nomen Scio, lies' doch einfach mal allen
>Anwesenden https://support.torproject.org/misc/misc-11/ laut vor.
>Danke.

| Also, using paths longer than 3 could harm anonymity, first because it
| makes denial of security attacks easier, and second because it could act
| as an identifier if only a small number of users have the same path length
| as you.

Alles bekannt.

Zunächst einmal, was versteht man unter 'denial of security attacks'???

Und dann bleibt absolut unklar, wie die Pfadlänge, die vielleicht am
Eingangsknoten aus den Übertragungspattern noch irgendwie erahnt werden
könnte, auch am Exit festgestellt werden soll, um hier Zuordnungen zu
ermöglichen. Das Protokoll gibt diese Daten nämlich nicht preis. Und die
Heterogenität des Netzes mit mehr oder weniger performanten Tor-Servern
und damit Routings bei ständig wechselnder Netzwerkbelastung ist dabei
auch gewaltig im Weg. Und dann wäre da noch die Möglichkeit einer sehr
restriktiven Auswahl an dem Client erlaubten Torknoten, die vergleichbar
längerer Ketten die Performance generell negativ beeinflussen kann. Sehr
zweifelhaft, dass was da im Labor vielleicht möglich erscheint
realistische Angriffsvektoren sind. Aber vielleicht kannst du mir das ja
mal im Detail erklären.

Andererseits ist durchaus nachvollziehbar, dass man mit derart
abschreckenden Aussagen Netzwerküberlastungen vorbeugen will. Der Text
steht ja schon länger auf deren Seite.

Bleibt noch zu bemerken, dass in all den akademischen Arbeiten zum Thema
immer mit Blick auf das Optimum argumentiert wird, man aber nie einfach
mal banal gegenrechnet, welch immenses Risiko bei angeblich hoher Anzahl
an TLA-Knoten allein die statistische Häufigkeit von allen 3 Knoten in
einer Hand darstellt.

Und nochmals, ich habe nie behauptet, Tor wäre absolut sicher. Ggf.
kombiniert mit Remailern ist es aber das sicherste derzeit Verfügbare.

Thread

Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2025-06-13 15:27 +0200
  Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Friedrich Karl Siebert <f.k.siebert@online.de> - 2025-06-13 15:48 +0200
  Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Gunter Kühne <kuehne-g@freenet.de> - 2025-06-13 19:50 +0200
    Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2025-06-13 21:24 +0200
      Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Goetz Schultz <ng.expire1225@goetz.co.uk> - 2025-06-13 21:15 +0100
      Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2025-06-13 22:56 +0200
        Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2025-06-14 16:07 +0200
          Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2025-06-14 16:16 +0200
            Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-14 17:18 +0200
            Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Andreas Bockelmann <xotzil@gmx.de> - 2025-06-14 17:22 +0200
          Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-15 11:49 +0200
            Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-15 12:03 +0200
              Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-15 19:53 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-16 01:22 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-16 08:20 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Goetz Schultz <ng.expire1225@goetz.co.uk> - 2025-06-16 09:30 +0100
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-16 11:52 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Goetz Schultz <ng.expire1225@goetz.co.uk> - 2025-06-16 11:26 +0100
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-16 12:54 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-16 15:10 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Goetz Schultz <ng.expire1225@goetz.co.uk> - 2025-06-16 17:51 +0100
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-18 16:39 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Goetz Schultz <ng.expire1225@goetz.co.uk> - 2025-06-18 18:18 +0100
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-19 02:15 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-19 09:36 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Goetz Schultz <ng.expire1225@goetz.co.uk> - 2025-06-19 10:16 +0100
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dr. Joachim Neudert <neudert@5sl.org> - 2025-06-19 11:25 +0000
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Hermann Riemann <nospam.ng@hermann-riemann.de> - 2025-06-19 13:29 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Lars Gebauer <lgebauer@live.de> - 2025-06-19 13:29 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-19 22:40 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Ulrich D i e z <ud.usenetcorrespondence@web.de> - 2025-06-19 13:38 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Goetz Schultz <ng.expire1225@goetz.co.uk> - 2025-06-19 13:41 +0100
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-16 11:49 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Goetz Schultz <ng.expire1225@goetz.co.uk> - 2025-06-16 11:32 +0100
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-16 13:16 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-20 17:44 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-20 18:02 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-21 08:05 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2025-06-20 18:17 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-21 08:03 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Walter Brill <WalterBrill@t-online.de> - 2025-06-16 13:58 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-16 22:17 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Walter Brill <WalterBrill@t-online.de> - 2025-06-17 14:25 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-17 16:27 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-18 21:10 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Ruediger Lahl <ruediger.lahl@gmx.de> - 2025-06-18 21:47 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-20 14:23 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2025-06-20 14:36 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-20 19:09 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Lars Gebauer <lgebauer@live.de> - 2025-06-20 20:32 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Goetz Schultz <ng.expire1225@goetz.co.uk> - 2025-06-20 20:12 +0100
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Lars Gebauer <lgebauer@live.de> - 2025-06-20 21:48 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Peter Veith <veith@snafu.de> - 2025-06-20 22:46 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Lars Gebauer <lgebauer@live.de> - 2025-06-20 23:56 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Peter Veith <veith@snafu.de> - 2025-06-21 10:17 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-06-21 09:47 +0000
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Peter Veith <veith@snafu.de> - 2025-06-21 12:10 +0200
                Enigma, mal wieder (was:Re: EU: public DNS resolvers?) Walter Brill <WalterBrill@t-online.de> - 2025-06-21 15:22 +0200
                Re: Enigma, mal wieder "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2025-06-21 15:54 +0200
                Re: Enigma, mal wieder Walter Brill <WalterBrill@t-online.de> - 2025-06-21 16:15 +0200
                Re: Enigma, mal wieder Peter Veith <veith@snafu.de> - 2025-06-21 16:55 +0200
                Re: Enigma, mal wieder Peter Veith <veith@snafu.de> - 2025-06-21 17:00 +0200
                Re: Enigma, mal wieder "Dr. Joachim Neudert" <neudert@5sl.org> - 2025-06-21 17:52 +0200
                Re: Enigma, mal wieder Lars Gebauer <lgebauer@live.de> - 2025-06-21 20:39 +0200
                Re: Enigma, mal wieder Lars Gebauer <lgebauer@live.de> - 2025-06-21 20:57 +0200
                Re: Enigma, mal wieder Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-06-22 06:22 +0000
                Re: Enigma, mal wieder Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-22 10:18 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-21 08:13 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Goetz Schultz <ng.expire1225@goetz.co.uk> - 2025-06-21 11:18 +0100
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-21 14:51 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Goetz Schultz <ng.expire1225@goetz.co.uk> - 2025-06-21 19:18 +0100
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Lars Gebauer <lgebauer@live.de> - 2025-06-20 20:17 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dr. Joachim Neudert <neudert@5sl.org> - 2025-06-20 18:23 +0000
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Goetz Schultz <ng.expire1225@goetz.co.uk> - 2025-06-20 19:31 +0100
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-06-20 19:01 +0000
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Lars Gebauer <lgebauer@live.de> - 2025-06-20 21:02 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Goetz Schultz <ng.expire1225@goetz.co.uk> - 2025-06-20 20:17 +0100
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Lars Gebauer <lgebauer@live.de> - 2025-06-20 21:41 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-21 08:20 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Walter Brill <WalterBrill@t-online.de> - 2025-06-21 15:36 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Lars Gebauer <lgebauer@live.de> - 2025-06-20 20:48 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2025-06-20 21:00 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Lars Gebauer <lgebauer@live.de> - 2025-06-20 21:12 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2025-06-20 21:29 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Lars Gebauer <lgebauer@live.de> - 2025-06-20 21:52 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2025-06-21 08:23 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Gunter Kühne <kuehne-g@freenet.de> - 2025-06-21 18:50 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Michael Bode <m.g.bode@web.de> - 2025-06-21 18:56 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Gunter Kühne <kuehne-g@freenet.de> - 2025-06-21 19:09 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-21 08:22 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Ulrich D i e z <ud.usenetcorrespondence@web.de> - 2025-06-19 14:10 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-21 10:15 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-21 14:25 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-21 15:05 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-21 20:49 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-21 23:48 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-22 07:21 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dr. Joachim Neudert <neudert@5sl.org> - 2025-06-22 05:36 +0000
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-22 10:33 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-22 10:32 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-22 13:28 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-22 23:39 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-23 01:36 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-23 08:30 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Walter Brill <WalterBrill@t-online.de> - 2025-06-23 15:14 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Dietz Proepper <dietz.usenet@rotfl.franken.de> - 2025-06-23 23:18 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Walter Brill <WalterBrill@t-online.de> - 2025-06-24 14:39 +0200
                Re: EU: public DNS resolvers? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2025-06-22 01:00 +0200

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