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HP Instant Ink question

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  HP Instant Ink question Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2020-08-14 20:22 +0100
    Re: HP Instant Ink question Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2020-08-14 20:31 +0100
      Re: HP Instant Ink question Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2020-08-14 21:05 +0100
        Re: HP Instant Ink question Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2020-08-15 09:30 +0100
          Re: HP Instant Ink question Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2020-08-15 10:20 +0100
            Re: HP Instant Ink question Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2020-08-15 21:59 +0100
              Re: HP Instant Ink question Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2020-08-16 00:40 +0100
              Re: HP Instant Ink question Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> - 2020-08-16 18:07 +0100
    Re: HP Instant Ink question Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2020-08-14 19:53 +0000
    Re: HP Instant Ink question Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2020-08-18 18:03 +0100

#146214 — HP Instant Ink question

Does anybody here use this service?

The documentation I've seen does not make it clear whether the printer 
itself tells HP ahout its ink usage, or whether it is part of the 
printer driver software installed on the computer.

Further, does the HP system interrogate the printer, or does the 
printer/driver simply report usage?

I'm trying to help a friend whose description of the problem is 
confusing, and I've trying to understand how it is supposed to work 
before I visit to help.

TIA

-- 
Graham J

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#146215

On 14 Aug 2020, Graham J wrote
(in article <rh6o9i$ua6$1@dont-email.me>):

> Does anybody here use this service?

Yes.

> The documentation I've seen does not make it clear whether the printer
> itself tells HP ahout its ink usage, or whether it is part of the
> printer driver software installed on the computer.

The printer.

> Further, does the HP system interrogate the printer, or does the
> printer/driver simply report usage?

The printer tells HP, presumably in the same way it tells the driver.

> I'm trying to help a friend whose description of the problem is
> confusing, and I've trying to understand how it is supposed to work
> before I visit to help.

What’s the question being asked?

Thanks,
Ian

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#146217

Ian McCall wrote:
> On 14 Aug 2020, Graham J wrote
> (in article <rh6o9i$ua6$1@dont-email.me>):
> 
>> Does anybody here use this service?
> 
> Yes.
> 
>> The documentation I've seen does not make it clear whether the printer
>> itself tells HP ahout its ink usage, or whether it is part of the
>> printer driver software installed on the computer.
> 
> The printer.
> 
>> Further, does the HP system interrogate the printer, or does the
>> printer/driver simply report usage?
> 
> The printer tells HP, presumably in the same way it tells the driver.
> 
>> I'm trying to help a friend whose description of the problem is
>> confusing, and I've trying to understand how it is supposed to work
>> before I visit to help.
> 
> What’s the question being asked?

The reported message is something like: "Action Needed: Printer 
Connection Lost" coming in an email from <donotreply@instantink.hpsmart.com>

Which has apparently been resolved by "reconnecting to the web" but by 
this she might mean reconnecting to the LAN by WiFi.  Of course, being 
WiFi only it could easily have lost its WiFi connection.  Or the 
Internet connection itself could have failed.

How long does the connection have to be broken in order that HP sends 
this email?

How frequently does the printer "phone home"?

-- 
Graham J

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#146218

On 14 Aug 2020, Graham J wrote
(in article <rh6qqj$e58$1@dont-email.me>):

> The reported message is something like: "Action Needed: Printer
> Connection Lost" coming in an email from<donotreply@instantink.hpsmart.com>
>
> Which has apparently been resolved by "reconnecting to the web" but by
> this she might mean reconnecting to the LAN by WiFi. Of course, being
> WiFi only it could easily have lost its WiFi connection. Or the
> Internet connection itself could have failed.
>
> How long does the connection have to be broken in order that HP sends
> this email?

Hmm. I do believe I’ve seen that before, and yes - it needed the wifi 
reconnecting. It has the bad habit of sometimes not coming back after a 
router reboot, although I should probably write ‘had the bad habit’ since 
I’ve not seen that for a while now.

> How frequently does the printer "phone home”

Regularly - honestly don’t know the frequency but given the instant ink 
thing is on a per-page subscription cost then I would imagine at minimum 
after every print, and probably on a regular schedule as well for 
firmware/app updates/.

I was very sceptical of the service at first and I naturally shy away from 
subscription-anything. In a couple of cases I’ve been forced into it 
(EastWest Composer Cloud, the game console stuff) but on the whole I hate it. 
However, I will say that in this case I’m going to make an exception. The 
only problem with the service so far has been me forgetting where I put the 
new ink when it arrived...

The printer has been a perfect homework machine. Scanning, colour printing 
including photo...all good. I had a laser printer before which was also good, 
shook the house when it printed (some giant office Lexar one) and great for 
black and white. Less good at colour, and single function. In this case, the 
HP+subscription has worked out well for me.

Cheers,
Ian

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#146219

Ian McCall wrote:
> On 14 Aug 2020, Graham J wrote
> (in article <rh6qqj$e58$1@dont-email.me>):
> 
>> The reported message is something like: "Action Needed: Printer
>> Connection Lost" coming in an email from<donotreply@instantink.hpsmart.com>
>>
>> Which has apparently been resolved by "reconnecting to the web" but by
>> this she might mean reconnecting to the LAN by WiFi. Of course, being
>> WiFi only it could easily have lost its WiFi connection. Or the
>> Internet connection itself could have failed.
>>
>> How long does the connection have to be broken in order that HP sends
>> this email?
> 
> Hmm. I do believe I’ve seen that before, and yes - it needed the wifi
> reconnecting. It has the bad habit of sometimes not coming back after a
> router reboot, although I should probably write ‘had the bad habit’ since
> I’ve not seen that for a while now.
> 
>> How frequently does the printer "phone home”
> 
> Regularly - honestly don’t know the frequency but given the instant ink
> thing is on a per-page subscription cost then I would imagine at minimum
> after every print, and probably on a regular schedule as well for
> firmware/app updates/.
> 
> I was very sceptical of the service at first and I naturally shy away from
> subscription-anything. In a couple of cases I’ve been forced into it
> (EastWest Composer Cloud, the game console stuff) but on the whole I hate it.
> However, I will say that in this case I’m going to make an exception. The
> only problem with the service so far has been me forgetting where I put the
> new ink when it arrived...
> 
> The printer has been a perfect homework machine. Scanning, colour printing
> including photo...all good. I had a laser printer before which was also good,
> shook the house when it printed (some giant office Lexar one) and great for
> black and white. Less good at colour, and single function. In this case, the
> HP+subscription has worked out well for me.


Thanks.

Can your router identify the traffic from the printer and write details 
about it to syslog?  That way you could tell how often it sends stuff.

My user has a new Fritz!Box 7530 from Zen (static public IP) and I find 
I can ping it from the internet.  So have used F8Lure to monitor the 
connection since 9pm last night.  Solid from then until 1am this 
morning, then serious ping loss - enough so that anything trying to use 
the connection could well have had difficulties.  Clearly resolving this 
will be the first step in the investigation.

I've never worked with a Fritz!Box 7530 before; my experience is with 
the various Vigor routers.  I hope it will give me similar diagnostics - 
traffic monitoring, bandwidth limits per LAN IP address, syslog, remote 
access via ACL, DSL stats, and the like.

More later.


-- 
Graham J

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#146224

Graham J wrote:

[snip]

> More later.

Update: starting with some history.

18 July. I lend Technicolor TG588v v2 router because ISP failed to 
supply something suitable when upgrading to FTTC.  Connects OK.  HP Envy 
4520 works but I'm told it has not printed colour since the PC was 
upgraded to Windows 10 (previously Windows 7).  Apparently a common problem.

Sometime about 22 July.  User's son removes and re-installs printer 
driver in failed attempt to get colour working.

25 July.  HP instant ink website when looked at today shows this as the 
last date when it recorded anything being printed.  User is certain she 
printed something on most days since then.

29 July.  I install Fritz!Box 7530 as supplied by ISP.  Factory 
configuration, sets itself up via TR-069.  All WiFi devices reconfigured 
for new SSID.  Printer prints a test page; I know, I saw it happen.

14 July.  User receives email from HP "Printer Connection Lost".  So 
about 20 days since it knew about anything being printed.  User logs 
into HP ink website, is prompted to set up printer from scratch, and 
printer is issued with a new email address.   Later we see that the next 
date the HP site shows anything as printed is today.

9pm I suspect an intermittent internet connection, so set up F8Lure to 
monitor it.  Nice solid connection until about 1am, then packet loss 
occurring about once in every 10 pings.  I guess that this might have 
happened before and prevented the printer from "phoning home".

15 July 2:30pm I visit.  Despite packet loss, router shows reliable 
connection.  Good SNR margin, zero error counts, many days connection 
up-time.  Speedtest.net shows expected speeds.  User confirms she's 
never seen any breaks in service when viewing web pages or using Zoom. 
Conclude that missing pings are not affecting performance.

Therefore conclude that printer failing to talk to HP was not caused by 
an intermittent internet connection.  Ping loss shown by F8Lure is a red 
herring.

I note that Fritz!Box 7530 has firmware 07.13 and the new version 07.20 
is available and will be installed automatically in the early hours of 
tomorrow morning.  I guess that an auto-update happened at 1am today and 
caused the packet loss.  I therefore install the update to 07.20 
immediately.  Connects OK, but packet loss remains similar.

I reconfigure my Technicolor TG588v v2 router to look exactly like the 
Fritz!Box 7530 (same IP, DHCP settings, SSID and password, etc). 
Connect it in place of Fritz!Box 7530.  Apparent within a few minutes 
that ping loss does not occur.

I reconnect Fritz!Box 7530 which has been powered off for the duration 
of the previous test.  Now it doesn't respond to pings from the 
internet.  But I've not changed anything!  Guidance on web suggests 
"stealth mode"  should be unchecked - which it is, and I'm sure was 
before the power off.  Set it on, now responds to pings from the 
internet.  Since then ping loss has been similar.

So I don't know why the printer failed to communicate with HP, but the 
user can recover the situation via the HP Ink website.

I don't know why the Fritz!Box 7530 sometimes fails to respond to pings 
from the internet, when the Technicolor TG588v v2 router behaves 
properly.  I await another auto-update of its firmware.

Watch this space.



-- 
Graham J

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#146225

On 15 Aug 2020, Graham J wrote
(in article <rh9ibh$ro1$1@dont-email.me>):

> I don't know why the Fritz!Box 7530 sometimes fails to respond to pings
> from the internet, when the Technicolor TG588v v2 router behaves
> properly. I await another auto-update of its firmware.

OK - I can’t confirm this is accurate obviously as I don’t have the a 
Fritz!Box, but...it seems these routers can also sometimes have problem with 
Xbox gaming. My guess is that what it’s -actually- having trouble with is 
either UPnP or NAT traversal (or both). That might also affect the HP.

Soooo....

<https://en.avm.de/service/fritzbox/fritzbox-7390/knowledge-
base/publication/show/1438_Using-Xbox-One-in-the-FRITZ-Box-home-network/>

Worth a read. Seems you have something called a Terado Filter, and that 
disabling it helps with things that need NAT.

Cheers,
Ian

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#146236

On 15/08/2020 21:59, Graham J wrote:
> So I don't know why the printer failed to communicate with HP, but the 
> user can recover the situation via the HP Ink website.
> 
> I don't know why the Fritz!Box 7530 sometimes fails to respond to pings 
> from the internet, when the Technicolor TG588v v2 router behaves 
> properly.  I await another auto-update of its firmware.

Also check the printer's built-in web server to see if there are 
firmware updates or similar. The built-in server in my OfficeJet seems 
pretty well done, and you might spot some logging things there.

-- 
Chris

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#146216

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> Does anybody here use this service?
> 
> The documentation I've seen does not make it clear whether the printer 
> itself tells HP ahout its ink usage, or whether it is part of the 
> printer driver software installed on the computer.
> 
> Further, does the HP system interrogate the printer, or does the 
> printer/driver simply report usage?
> 
> I'm trying to help a friend whose description of the problem is 
> confusing, and I've trying to understand how it is supposed to work 
> before I visit to help.

Yeah, just bought a HP Envy Pro with the Instant Ink subscription.

The printer doesn’t even need to be connected to a computer. You set up an
account at HP, where you can view and manage your usage and settings, the
printer connects to your account, and triggers HP sending you fresh
cartridges based on usage.

As far as I can see, the printer does all the communicating, but only via
your own account.

You install the HP Smart apps on all your devices, and you can manage, view
and control the printer from any of your devices. 

It works very well here so far.

-- 
Andy H

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#146249

Graham J wrote:
> Does anybody here use this service?
> 
> The documentation I've seen does not make it clear whether the printer 
> itself tells HP ahout its ink usage, or whether it is part of the 
> printer driver software installed on the computer.
> 
> Further, does the HP system interrogate the printer, or does the 
> printer/driver simply report usage?
> 
> I'm trying to help a friend whose description of the problem is 
> confusing, and I've trying to understand how it is supposed to work 
> before I visit to help.

Some more info.

The printer is supposed to communicate with HP on a daily basis.

Today:

HP Ink website says "Printer Connection Lost!"

Printer's web page shows "Web services" not working.  But it prints and 
scans, and I can see its web page so the LAN connection is fine.

HP instructions say:

"
1. Press the ePrint icon on your printer. Enable Web Services or press 
Print Info or Print if already enabled.

2. Wait for page to print.

3. Locate claim code near bottom of printed page.
"

At 1 the only available option is print.  A landscape format page 
appears showing the email address of the printer.

There is no claim code printed on this page, so I can't proceed with the 
instructions to connect.

However power off - wait 10 seconds - power on the printer.  Once it 
wakes up, view its web page: now it shows web services are working.

Review HP Ink website: after a few seconds it reports a good connection 
to the printer with the current time of day.  But the information area 
continues to show  "Printer Connection Lost!"

So I've no idea what is going on.  I suspect HP never tested their software!


-- 
Graham J

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