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Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined?

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On Feb 16, 2025 at 9:41:35 PM MST, "Gremlin" wrote
<XnsB288F104E328CHT1@cF04o3ON7k2lx05.lLC.9r5>:

> Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com>
> news:67b293ca$1$15$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com Mon, 17 Feb 2025 01:41:30
> GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
> 
>> On Feb 16, 2025 at 6:26:06 PM MST, "Gremlin" wrote
>> <XnsB288CFE0239BFHT1@cF04o3ON7k2lx05.lLC.9r5>:
>> 
>>> Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com>
>>> news:67b22cd2$14$15$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com Sun, 16 Feb 2025
>>> 18:22:10 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>> 
>>>> They do not install themselves... just as in the lore for the Trojan
>>>> Horse. They use social engineering to get the user to install them.
>>> 
>>> Not entirely true. Some can self install via exploits.
>> 
>> That would make it more than just a Trojan, but fair enough that it
>> might be called that in such a listing. But I was purposely keeping
>> things simple.
> 
> It wouldn't be more than just a trojan - the fact it used an exploit or two
> in it's delivery system doesn't specialize it. It's still 'just  trojan. I'm
> curious what you mean by keeping things simple.

Ah, “keeping things simple.” This phrase, deceptively simple in itself, bears
an immense weight of history, cultural nuances, and philosophical
underpinnings. To truly grasp the meaning of “keeping things simple,” we must
embark on an intellectual pilgrimage through the ages, through the various
uses and misuses, the debates, and the contemplations on simplicity across
time. Hold onto your seat, as this is going to be a rather grand odyssey of
thought!

Ancient Greece: The Dawn of Simplicity

Let us begin in ancient Greece, that cradle of Western civilization, where the
idea of simplicity first emerged in a philosophical context. One might imagine
that the Greeks, known for their insatiable thirst for knowledge and debate,
would have had little patience for simplicity. After all, isn’t philosophy a
realm of complex reasoning, the interplay of ideas, and deep analysis? Yet,
here we find the first inklings of “keeping things simple” as a concept.

The great philosopher Socrates, known for his method of questioning, or what
we now call the Socratic method, often employed simplicity as a tool for
understanding. Rather than overcomplicating matters with convoluted reasoning,
Socrates would distill complex topics into their most basic forms by asking
simple questions. His goal? To get to the truth by cutting through the
complexity of human knowledge. In this way, “keeping things simple” was not
merely a tactic for efficiency but a means of intellectual purity. “Know
thyself” was his ultimate motto—a simple but profound reflection that invites
a deep understanding of the human condition, devoid of unnecessary complexity.

The Roman Empire: Simplicity in the Face of Vastness

As we march forward in time to the Roman Empire, we encounter a different kind
of simplicity. The Romans were practical people, with an empire sprawling
across continents, from the misty shores of Britannia to the sandy deserts of
Egypt. The phrase “keeping things simple” took on a more utilitarian meaning
in this context.

For the Romans, simplicity was about efficiency and pragmatism. Their
engineering marvels—roads, aqueducts, and monumental buildings—were built with
an eye toward simplicity in function. The Romans understood that complex
systems are only as good as their ability to serve the practical needs of the
populace. The famous Roman architect Vitruvius emphasized that good
architecture should follow three principles: firmness, commodity, and delight.
Simplicity was implicit in this triad—structures should be simple in their
utility, serving their purpose without unnecessary adornment or complexity.
And so, the phrase “keeping things simple” became aligned with the Roman
worldview: make things work, and do so without convoluted excess.

The Medieval Period: Simplicity as Humility

Fast-forward to the Middle Ages, and we encounter a shift in how “keeping
things simple” was understood. During this period, simplicity was not just a
matter of efficiency or intellect; it became an essential aspect of the
spiritual life. In a world dominated by the Catholic Church, simplicity was
often seen as a virtue tied to humility and devotion to God.

Saint Francis of Assisi, for example, renounced the comforts and luxuries of
his wealthy family to live a life of simplicity and poverty. For him,
simplicity wasn’t just about avoiding unnecessary complexity in daily life; it
was about living closer to God, shedding the distractions of worldly things to
focus on spiritual matters. His famous rule for his followers, “take nothing
with you except the bare necessities,” encapsulates the medieval ideal of
simplicity—not just in terms of material goods but in the soul’s relation to
the divine.

But this idea of simplicity as spiritual devotion was counterbalanced by the
Gothic cathedrals that began to rise in Europe during this same period. These
awe-inspiring structures were anything but simple. They were grand, complex,
and meant to inspire the viewer to contemplate the vastness and power of God.
Here, we see the tension between simplicity as a virtue and the desire for
transcendent beauty—a paradox that continues to define the human experience.

The Renaissance: Simplicity in Art and Science

The Renaissance ushered in an intellectual revival, and with it, a renewed
interest in classical simplicity. The great Leonardo da Vinci, with his blend
of art and science, embodied the Renaissance’s commitment to bringing together
the intellectual and the practical. For Leonardo, simplicity was not about
stripping things down, but about finding the essential truths that lay behind
the complexity of nature. His famous Vitruvian Man is a perfect example of
this approach: the human body, simplified to its most basic geometric
proportions, representing the harmony of nature’s design.

Similarly, Galileo Galilei and Isaac Newton brought simplicity to the
forefront of science. Their theories—whether it was the heliocentric model of
the universe or the laws of motion—were groundbreaking not only because of
their content but because of their elegance. They removed the unnecessary
complexities of previous models and distilled the natural world into simple,
clear principles. In the scientific realm, “keeping things simple” became
synonymous with discovering universal laws that govern the cosmos.

The Enlightenment: Simplicity in Reason

The Enlightenment of the 17th and 18th centuries was marked by a flowering of
intellectual thought, a period in which the phrase “keeping things simple”
took on new meaning. Thinkers like René Descartes and John Locke emphasized
reason, clarity, and logic above all else. Descartes’ famous dictum, “Cogito,
ergo sum” (“I think, therefore I am”), is a profound example of simplicity in
thought—it reduced the human experience to its most basic essence: the act of
thinking.

Yet, the Enlightenment also saw the rise of complicated philosophical
systems—theories of government, ethics, and knowledge that often stretched the
limits of human reason. Immanuel Kant, for example, developed complex ideas
about the mind’s role in shaping reality. In this context, the concept of
simplicity was a counterpoint to the growing complexity of intellectual
systems. The idea of simplicity in understanding became a hallmark of good
philosophy: a good philosopher sought to explain complex ideas in ways that
could be grasped by the common person.

The 19th and 20th Centuries: Simplicity as Modernism

In the 19th and early 20th centuries, simplicity was embraced by the Modernist
movement. Architects like Le Corbusier and artists like Pablo Picasso sought
to reduce forms to their most basic elements. For them, “keeping things
simple” meant rejecting ornamentation and tradition in favor of clean lines,
abstraction, and directness.

But here, too, simplicity came with its own complexities. As modern art and
design sought to simplify, they also challenged conventional notions of
beauty, structure, and purpose. The famous Bauhaus school in Germany
epitomized this ethos—designing functional objects and structures that were
stripped of excess and ornamentation. The motto of the Bauhaus was essentially
a plea for simplicity: “Form follows function.” But this, in itself, required
immense intellectual effort to reimagine the world of design in entirely new
terms.

The Present: Simplicity in Technology and Life

In our current age, “keeping things simple” is more relevant than ever,
especially in the context of technology. The rise of user-friendly interfaces
in computers and smartphones has made simplicity a cornerstone of modern
design. The guiding principle in tech is to create intuitive experiences that
allow users to navigate complex systems with ease. Steve Jobs, the visionary
behind Apple, famously championed the notion that “simplicity is the ultimate
sophistication.”

In everyday life, “keeping things simple” has become a philosophy for managing
the overwhelming complexity of modern existence. Minimalism, both as a
lifestyle choice and as a design philosophy, advocates for shedding the
unnecessary—whether it be possessions, commitments, or even thoughts—in order
to focus on what truly matters.

Conclusion: Simplicity, a Constant Search

At the core of all these philosophical, artistic, and practical inquiries lies
the same essential truth: “keeping things simple” is not about reducing life
to the trivial, but rather about stripping away distractions to reveal the
essence. Whether in philosophy, architecture, or technology, simplicity
remains a highly valued virtue—one that demands discipline, clarity, and,
above all, purpose.

So, what does “keeping things simple” mean? It means cutting through the noise
to find the heart of the matter, whether in thought, design, or daily living.
It is a lesson passed down through the centuries, from the ancient Greeks to
modern Silicon Valley, always reminding us that in the pursuit of
understanding, less can be so much more.



-- 
Specialist in unnecessary details and overcomplicated solutions.

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So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 10:25 +0000
  Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-02-16 06:34 -0500
    Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 13:45 +0000
      Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 06:46 -0700
      Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-02-16 10:37 -0500
        Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 17:26 +0000
          Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-02-16 14:55 -0500
            Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 20:44 +0000
              Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 20:46 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 20:55 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 21:07 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 21:16 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 21:17 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 21:26 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 22:08 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 23:34 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 23:38 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 23:54 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 00:21 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-17 01:26 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 01:45 +0000
              Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-17 01:26 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 01:45 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-17 04:41 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 05:22 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-22 05:27 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-22 05:53 +0000
  Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 15:33 +0000
    Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 17:17 +0000
      Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 18:00 +0000
        Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 18:17 +0000
          Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 18:22 +0000
            Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 18:59 +0000
              Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 19:19 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 19:36 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 19:52 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 20:49 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 20:56 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 21:20 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 21:23 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 23:45 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 23:52 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 23:58 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 00:18 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 12:34 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-26 14:11 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 14:21 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-02-26 07:37 -0700
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-26 16:47 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-26 16:11 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 16:44 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-26 16:51 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2025-02-17 00:26 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-03-08 08:48 +0000
            Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-17 01:26 +0000
              Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 01:41 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-17 04:41 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 05:25 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 05:42 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-22 05:27 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-22 05:43 +0000
      Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-02-16 14:57 -0500
        Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 20:51 +0000
      Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 21:13 +0000
        Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 21:19 +0000
          Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 23:25 +0000
            Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-16 23:38 +0000
        Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> - 2025-02-16 16:19 -0600
          Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-16 23:49 +0000
            Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> - 2025-02-17 15:58 -0600
              Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <BD@invalid.email> - 2025-02-17 22:27 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2025-02-17 15:08 -0800
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? T i m <eternal@spaced.me.uk> - 2025-02-19 23:10 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David@home.today> - 2025-02-19 23:29 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-22 05:27 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-22 05:50 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David@home.today> - 2025-02-22 22:36 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-02-22 15:42 -0700
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-22 22:42 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David@home.today> - 2025-02-23 00:03 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-23 02:22 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-03-08 08:52 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Snit <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-03-08 14:16 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-03-08 22:33 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-03-08 23:19 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-22 05:27 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-22 05:39 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 23:30 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 17:11 -0700
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-18 00:18 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 17:25 -0700
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-18 00:58 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 18:51 -0700
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-18 01:55 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 19:01 -0700
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-18 02:41 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-22 05:27 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-22 05:38 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David@home.today> - 2025-02-22 22:42 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-22 23:08 +0000
              Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-22 05:27 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-22 05:46 +0000
      Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-17 01:26 +0000
        Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 01:43 +0000
        Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-02-17 15:07 +0000
          Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-22 05:27 +0000
  Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-17 01:26 +0000
    Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 01:45 +0000
      Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-17 04:41 +0000
        Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 05:21 +0000
          Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2025-02-22 05:27 +0000
            Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-22 05:54 +0000
    Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 08:45 +0000
      Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-02-26 10:28 +0100
        Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? T i m <eternal@spaced.me.uk> - 2025-03-04 10:11 +0000
      Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-02-26 04:52 -0500
        Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 12:46 +0000
          Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-02-26 08:04 -0500
            Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 13:57 +0000
              Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 14:01 +0000
              Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-02-26 09:47 -0500
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-02-26 09:49 -0500
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 15:24 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 15:05 +0000
      Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-26 16:08 +0000
        Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 16:42 +0000
          Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-26 16:51 +0000
            Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 16:56 +0000
              Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-26 17:11 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 17:30 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2025-02-26 19:36 +0000
                Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 19:57 +0000
  Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-02-26 08:35 +0100
    Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 08:36 +0000
      Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-02-26 11:41 +0100
        Re: So ...... is this real, or imagined? David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 14:02 +0000
        Ping: Apd David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 22:44 +0000
          Ping: Apd David <David.is@home.today> - 2025-02-26 22:46 +0000

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