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New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen

Started bySam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com>
First post2016-04-09 19:58 -0500
Last post2016-04-10 15:12 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 24 — 6 participants

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  New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:58 -0500
    Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-04-10 12:04 +0000
      Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 13:54 +0200
        Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-04-10 13:37 +0000
          Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 15:48 +0200
            Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-04-10 14:15 +0000
              Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 16:23 +0200
                Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-04-10 18:23 +0000
                  Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:56 +0200
                    Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-04-10 19:19 +0000
                      Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 21:39 +0200
                        Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-04-10 20:10 +0000
                          Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 22:42 +0200
                            Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-04-11 22:19 +0000
          Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 16:21 +0200
            Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-04-10 20:12 +0000
              Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 22:50 +0200
      Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 14:46 +0200
      Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-10 13:39 -0700
        Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 21:03 +0000
        Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 16:26 -0500
          Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen Mike Duffy <mqduffy001@bell.net> - 2016-04-10 18:08 -0400
            Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 17:15 -0500
          Re: New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-10 15:12 -0700

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#569328 — New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen

FromSam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-09 19:58 -0500
SubjectNew microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen
Message-ID<Ze2dnQpAf6GvOJTKnZ2dnUU7-IsAAAAA@giganews.com>
New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen
> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160408132647.htm


> Scientists create a molybdenum-based material that could be a
> low-cost alternative to platinum for splitting water to make hydrogen
> fuel.

>
> Journal Reference:
>
> Min-Rui Gao, Maria K.Y. Chan, Yugang Sun. Edge-terminated molybdenum
> disulfide with a 9.4-Å interlayer spacing for electrochemical
> hydrogen production. Nature Communications, 2015; 6: 7493 DOI:
> 10.1038/ncomms8493



-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

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#569409

From7 <7@enemygadgets.com>
Date2016-04-10 12:04 +0000
Message-ID<dmuqadFl66rU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#569328
Sam Wormley wrote:

> New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen
>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160408132647.htm
> 
> 
>> Scientists create a molybdenum-based material that could be a
>> low-cost alternative to platinum for splitting water to make hydrogen
>> fuel.

Hydrogen fuel has 20x less energy density than gasoline.
It requires a fuel tank 20x bigger to go the same distance.

And 20x many lorries to carry the fuel to the gas station.

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#569411

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-10 13:54 +0200
Message-ID<nedend$5np$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#569409
Dne 10/04/2016 v 14:04 7 napsal(a):
> Sam Wormley wrote:
> 
>> New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen
>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160408132647.htm
>>
>>
>>> Scientists create a molybdenum-based material that could be a
>>> low-cost alternative to platinum for splitting water to make hydrogen
>>> fuel.
> 
> Hydrogen fuel has 20x less energy density than gasoline.
> It requires a fuel tank 20x bigger to go the same distance.
> 
> And 20x many lorries to carry the fuel to the gas station.
> 

There is nowhere written
the hydrogen gas to be used the way you have supposed.

More and more electricity will be produced
via cheap solar panels with peak production.

Therefore there is need to develop energy storage that

- can absorb large amount of energy
- is cheap and simple
- can be used for long term storage

One of ways is hydrogen and derived products like methane.
Methane is already used to power cars as CNG / LNG.

See also
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=9991


-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )
Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#569421

From7 <7@enemygadgets.com>
Date2016-04-10 13:37 +0000
Message-ID<dmv38pFng8dU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#569411
Poutnik wrote:


>>> New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen
>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160408132647.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>> Scientists create a molybdenum-based material that could be a
>>>> low-cost alternative to platinum for splitting water to make hydrogen
>>>> fuel.
>> 
>> Hydrogen fuel has 20x less energy density than gasoline.
>> It requires a fuel tank 20x bigger to go the same distance.
>> 
>> And 20x many lorries to carry the fuel to the gas station.
>> 
> 
> There is nowhere written
> the hydrogen gas to be used the way you have supposed.
> 
> More and more electricity will be produced
> via cheap solar panels with peak production.
> 
> Therefore there is need to develop energy storage that
> 
> - can absorb large amount of energy
> - is cheap and simple
> - can be used for long term storage
> 
> One of ways is hydrogen and derived products like methane.
> Methane is already used to power cars as CNG / LNG.
> 
> See also
> http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=9991


Well I went to a lecture by the original US guy pushing this tech
and his visions are not electric.

His ideas were about safety and how it is all improved
over the ages to transport the stuff safely.

If hydrogen is being used as a battery, that doesn't bode
well either. The current ideas all go around improving cheaper
flow batteries. Hydrogen has no viable future
because its infinitely more dangerous to handle the stuff.

Also there are more cheaper solid state batteries coming
on to the market. How long before you put in a sodium
battery behind each solar panel is an interesting question.

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#569426

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-10 15:48 +0200
Message-ID<nedle3$608$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#569421
Dne 10/04/2016 v 15:37 7 napsal(a):

> 
> Well I went to a lecture by the original US guy pushing this tech
> and his visions are not electric.
> 
> His ideas were about safety and how it is all improved
> over the ages to transport the stuff safely.

I have not had in mind his ideas,
but general ideas how hydrogen can be used.

> If hydrogen is being used as a battery, that doesn't bode
> well either. The current ideas all go around improving cheaper
> flow batteries. Hydrogen has no viable future
> because its infinitely more dangerous to handle the stuff.

NiMH cells does not seem to be dangerous.
( I do not imply any conclusions wrt batteries and transportations )

> Also there are more cheaper solid state batteries coming
> on to the market. How long before you put in a sodium
> battery behind each solar panel is an interesting question.

It need not to be involved in battery nor transportation at all.

-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )
Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#569438

From7 <7@enemygadgets.com>
Date2016-04-10 14:15 +0000
Message-ID<dmv5gbFo0ijU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#569426
Poutnik wrote:


>> Well I went to a lecture by the original US guy pushing this tech
>> and his visions are not electric.
>> 
>> His ideas were about safety and how it is all improved
>> over the ages to transport the stuff safely.
> 
> I have not had in mind his ideas,
> but general ideas how hydrogen can be used.

And what might that be?

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#569442

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-10 16:23 +0200
Message-ID<nednfd$ppl$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#569438
Dne 10/04/2016 v 16:15 7 napsal(a):
> Poutnik wrote:
> 
> 
>>> Well I went to a lecture by the original US guy pushing this tech
>>> and his visions are not electric.
>>>
>>> His ideas were about safety and how it is all improved
>>> over the ages to transport the stuff safely.
>>
>> I have not had in mind his ideas,
>> but general ideas how hydrogen can be used.
> 
> And what might that be?
> 

How long have you been thinking before asking ?
The world is more then cars and batteries.

-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )
Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#569492

From7 <7@enemygadgets.com>
Date2016-04-10 18:23 +0000
Message-ID<dmvk12Frru8U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#569442
Poutnik wrote:

> Dne 10/04/2016 v 16:15 7 napsal(a):
>> Poutnik wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>> Well I went to a lecture by the original US guy pushing this tech
>>>> and his visions are not electric.
>>>>
>>>> His ideas were about safety and how it is all improved
>>>> over the ages to transport the stuff safely.
>>>
>>> I have not had in mind his ideas,
>>> but general ideas how hydrogen can be used.
>> 
>> And what might that be?
>> 
> 
> How long have you been thinking before asking ?
> The world is more then cars and batteries.

Procastinate why don't you?

Please answer the genuine question.

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#569498

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-10 20:56 +0200
Message-ID<nee7fi$423$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#569492
Dne 10/04/2016 v 20:23 7 napsal(a):
> Poutnik wrote:
> 
>> Dne 10/04/2016 v 16:15 7 napsal(a):
>>> Poutnik wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Well I went to a lecture by the original US guy pushing this tech
>>>>> and his visions are not electric.
>>>>>
>>>>> His ideas were about safety and how it is all improved
>>>>> over the ages to transport the stuff safely.
>>>>
>>>> I have not had in mind his ideas,
>>>> but general ideas how hydrogen can be used.
>>>
>>> And what might that be?
>>>
>>
>> How long have you been thinking before asking ?
>> The world is more then cars and batteries.
> 
> Procastinate why don't you?
> 
> Please answer the genuine question.
> 

The genuine question is,
Should I bother to answer your question,
if you could easily answer it yourself ?

The answer is, I should not,
supporting your ability to find answers on your own,
not relying on others unless necessary.

It is matter of several keywords and a few clicks.

-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )
Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#569507

From7 <7@enemygadgets.com>
Date2016-04-10 19:19 +0000
Message-ID<dmvna6FsuhnU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#569498
Poutnik wrote:

>>>>>> Well I went to a lecture by the original US guy pushing this tech
>>>>>> and his visions are not electric.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> His ideas were about safety and how it is all improved
>>>>>> over the ages to transport the stuff safely.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have not had in mind his ideas,
>>>>> but general ideas how hydrogen can be used.
>>>>
>>>> And what might that be?
>>>>
>>>
>>> How long have you been thinking before asking ?
>>> The world is more then cars and batteries.
>> 
>> Procastinate why don't you?
>> 
>> Please answer the genuine question.
>> 
> 
> The genuine question is,
> Should I bother to answer your question,
> if you could easily answer it yourself ?
> 
> The answer is, I should not,
> supporting your ability to find answers on your own,
> not relying on others unless necessary.
> 
> It is matter of several keywords and a few clicks.

Procrastinate why don't you?

There is no practical use for hydrogen fuel with 20x less
energy content than gasoline.

It would be a disaster building cars with 20x size
tanks for the same journey, and 20x more hydrogen
fuel tankers on the roads just makes it an exercise
in piddling with yet more 'green' energy trolls 
that cost more energy than saves.

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#569514

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-10 21:39 +0200
Message-ID<nee9vo$vpg$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#569507
Dne 10/04/2016 v 21:19 7 napsal(a):

> There is no practical use for hydrogen fuel with 20x less
> energy content than gasoline.
> 

Do not be like a horse with the blind sheets, seeing just cars.

Not all energy is for transportation nor electricity
and not all hydrogen is for energy.

-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )
Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#569520

From7 <7@enemygadgets.com>
Date2016-04-10 20:10 +0000
Message-ID<dmvq8qFtj0gU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#569514
Poutnik wrote:


>> There is no practical use for hydrogen fuel with 20x less
>> energy content than gasoline.
>> 
> 
> Do not be like a horse with the blind sheets, seeing just cars.
> 
> Not all energy is for transportation nor electricity
> and not all hydrogen is for energy.


Procrastinate why don't you troll.
 

There is no practical use for hydrogen as a major fuel
with 20x less energy content than gasoline.

If there is, let us know and we decide for you if
its major energy source of the future or not.

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#569524

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-10 22:42 +0200
Message-ID<needkr$5te$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#569520
Dne 10/04/2016 v 22:10 7 napsal(a):
>  
> 
> There is no practical use for hydrogen as a major fuel
> with 20x less energy content than gasoline.
> 
> If there is, let us know and we decide for you if
> its major energy source of the future or not.
> 
You have spoken about major energy source, not me...

-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )
Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#569823

From7 <7@enemygadgets.com>
Date2016-04-11 22:19 +0000
Message-ID<dn2m70FlisfU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#569524
Poutnik wrote:


>> There is no practical use for hydrogen as a major fuel
>> with 20x less energy content than gasoline.
>> 
>> If there is, let us know and we decide for you if
>> its major energy source of the future or not.
>> 
> You have spoken about major energy source, not me...

Which in nutshell proves what I'm saying.
If it is not a major fuel source, then plenty
of other ways of making hydrogen any way.

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#569441

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-10 16:21 +0200
Message-ID<nednau$ppl$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#569421
Dne 10/04/2016 v 15:37 7 napsal(a):
> Poutnik wrote:
> 

> 
> Also there are more cheaper solid state batteries coming
> on to the market. How long before you put in a sodium
> battery behind each solar panel is an interesting question.
> 
What  would be the price / kWh / cycle ?

E.g. for 50 KWh LiIon it was calculated
0.39 euro / 1 kWh / cycle
What is quite a lot

http://www.powertechsystems.eu/home/tech-corner/lithium-ion-vs-lead-acid-cost-analysis/


-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )
Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#569521

From7 <7@enemygadgets.com>
Date2016-04-10 20:12 +0000
Message-ID<dmvqd4Ftj0gU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#569441
Poutnik wrote:

> Dne 10/04/2016 v 15:37 7 napsal(a):
>> Poutnik wrote:
>> 
> 
>> 
>> Also there are more cheaper solid state batteries coming
>> on to the market. How long before you put in a sodium
>> battery behind each solar panel is an interesting question.
>> 
> What  would be the price / kWh / cycle ?
> 
> E.g. for 50 KWh LiIon it was calculated
> 0.39 euro / 1 kWh / cycle
> What is quite a lot
> 
> http://www.powertechsystems.eu/home/tech-corner/lithium-ion-vs-lead-acid-cost-analysis/

Lithium ion is not cheap. But sodium ion will be.
And grid storage doesn't care that much about weight.

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#569529

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-10 22:50 +0200
Message-ID<neee3r$d7s$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#569521
Dne 10/04/2016 v 22:12 7 napsal(a):
> Poutnik wrote:
> 
>> Dne 10/04/2016 v 15:37 7 napsal(a):
>>> Poutnik wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> Also there are more cheaper solid state batteries coming
>>> on to the market. How long before you put in a sodium
>>> battery behind each solar panel is an interesting question.
>>>
>> What  would be the price / kWh / cycle ?
>>
>> E.g. for 50 KWh LiIon it was calculated
>> 0.39 euro / 1 kWh / cycle
>> What is quite a lot
>>
>> http://www.powertechsystems.eu/home/tech-corner/lithium-ion-vs-lead-acid-cost-analysis/
> 
> Lithium ion is not cheap. But sodium ion will be.

For now they are more expensive.

> And grid storage doesn't care that much about weight.

But a lot about price and maintenance.


-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )
Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#569414

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-10 14:46 +0200
Message-ID<nedhp4$od0$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#569409
Dne 10/04/2016 v 14:04 7 napsal(a):

> 
> Hydrogen fuel has 20x less energy density than gasoline.
> It requires a fuel tank 20x bigger to go the same distance.
> 
> And 20x many lorries to carry the fuel to the gas station.
> 

There is nowhere written
the hydrogen gas has to be used the way you have supposed.

More and more electricity is produced each year
via cheap solar panels
with peak production during a day and a year.

Therefore there is need to develop energy storage that

- can absorb large amount of energy
- is cheap and simple
- can be used for long term storage

One of ways is hydrogen and derived products like methane.
Methane is already used to power cars as CNG / LNG.

See also for volume and mass energy densities.
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=9991

( resent due sending issues)

-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )
Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#569523

FromDouble-A <double-a3@hush.com>
Date2016-04-10 13:39 -0700
Message-ID<e5333a3b-ad70-4fc1-9574-8b9d171c0e2a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#569409
On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 4:04:50 AM UTC-7, 7 wrote:
> Sam Wormley wrote:
> 
> > New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen
> >> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160408132647.htm
> > 
> > 
> >> Scientists create a molybdenum-based material that could be a
> >> low-cost alternative to platinum for splitting water to make hydrogen
> >> fuel.
> 
> Hydrogen fuel has 20x less energy density than gasoline.
> It requires a fuel tank 20x bigger to go the same distance.
> 
> And 20x many lorries to carry the fuel to the gas station.


What about using metallic hydrogen?  Would take up less space!

Double-A

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#569537

Fromjimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
Date2016-04-10 21:03 +0000
Message-ID<dlrqtc-36p.ln1@mail.specsol.com>
In reply to#569523
Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 4:04:50 AM UTC-7, 7 wrote:
>> Sam Wormley wrote:
>> 
>> > New microwave synthesis technique produces more-affordable hydrogen
>> >> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160408132647.htm
>> > 
>> > 
>> >> Scientists create a molybdenum-based material that could be a
>> >> low-cost alternative to platinum for splitting water to make hydrogen
>> >> fuel.
>> 
>> Hydrogen fuel has 20x less energy density than gasoline.
>> It requires a fuel tank 20x bigger to go the same distance.
>> 
>> And 20x many lorries to carry the fuel to the gas station.
> 
> 
> What about using metallic hydrogen?  Would take up less space!
> 
> Double-A

But the gravity of Saturn needed to keep it that way takes a bit of space. 

-- 
Jim Pennino

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